The World Beyond BetterMost > Anything Goes
Why are the poor, poor?
brokeplex:
--- Quote from: seriouscrayons on May 05, 2008, 02:08:45 pm ---Yes. That would be great. Now all you have to do is spread the word through education and encouragement to all the poor people of this country. But then -- guess what? You'd be working for one of the many anti-poverty programs that are engaged in this very effort!! :D
--- End quote ---
an antipoverty program that was able to offer a education that prepared people for the workplace and then offered them a job based upon their skill levels which provided allowed them to advance and meet their material needs would be a blessing.
In fact this program is called SCHOOL CHOICE, SCHOOL ADOPTION, AND CAPITALISM.
brokeplex:
--- Quote from: seriouscrayons on May 05, 2008, 02:08:45 pm ---
This confuses me a bit. What are we doing here but debating? Are we looking to hammer out new policy, hoping that the BetterMost members who are also federal officials with influence in this area will read the thread and take action? Or more to the point, is anyone here really trying to come up with some new idea for helping the poor, or are we just batting back and forth our entrenched, conflicting views about the causes of the poverty and effectiveness of the current system?? In a discussion that seems to be taking on an increasingly nasty edge?
--- End quote ---
My original comment was not aimed at you. I assure you, if you were using the same "tactics" (and that dignifies what I have seen) which some others have used, I would not respond to your posts.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: broketrash on May 05, 2008, 10:43:43 pm ---I have noticed that frequently those on the left will automatically charge racism and sexism when their assumptions are challenged.
--- End quote ---
Since this seems to contain a reference to me, let me clarify once again. Sometimes, when I have heard people describe what they perceive as the typical Welfare recipient, or rail about the onerous 1-percent-of-the-budget tax burden it creates, the person also happens to be racist. I don't draw that conclusion entirely from their remarks about Welfare, which is why I haven't drawn it about you. I also draw it from other things those people have said.
Maybe it's entirely a coincidence, and their racist views have nothing to do with their reasoned assessment of welfare's efficacy. Again: Opposition to welfare is not, in and of itself, racist. However, it doesn't take a huge logical leap to surmise that, although the majority of welfare recipients are white, they are disproportionately black and according to stereotype almost exclusively black, so racism may enter into the viewpoints of at least some opponents of the system.
Let me put it another way. Most Welfare opponents may not be racist. But I would guess most racists are Welfare opponents. Except, of course, the racists who are also Welfare recipients.
That clarified, I'm happy to move on. :)
brokeplex:
--- Quote from: seriouscrayons on May 05, 2008, 02:08:45 pm ---Uh-huh. Right. Must be because we don't get those hilarious witticisms of hers. Um, including that one, I guess. ::)
I remind you again, as I mentioned the last time you said this, that the two funniest people in America are on the left. You can see them every night from 10 to 11 p.m. Central Time on the Comedy Channel (though I watch them in the morning, while working out).
--- End quote ---
Ann Coulter aside, and the fact the humor is indeed in the eyes and ears of the beholder, what is to be done about welfare?
You asked me to offer some solutions. That I did! You, and Del have offered reasoned objections to those ideas. OK, I disagree, but I am willing to entertain other ideas.
Or do you disagree with me that welfare needs to be scrapped at the federal level, turned over to the states and fundamentally reformed? Can I assume that you agree with Del's earlier post which offered some suggestions that would reform the system around the edges but wouldn't really change the fundamentals?
brokeplex:
--- Quote from: seriouscrayons on May 05, 2008, 10:57:05 pm ---Since this seems to contain a reference to me, let me clarify once again. Sometimes, when I have heard people describe what they perceive as the typical Welfare recipient, or rail about the onerous 1-percent-of-the-budget tax burden it creates, the person also happens to be racist. I don't draw that conclusion entirely from their remarks about Welfare, which is why I haven't drawn it about you. I also draw it from other things those people have said.
Maybe it's entirely a coincidence, and their racist views have nothing to do with their reasoned assessment of welfare's efficacy. Again: Opposition to welfare is not, in and of itself, racist. However, it doesn't take a huge logical leap to surmise that, although the majority of welfare recipients are white, they are disproportionately black and according to stereotype almost exclusively black, so racism may enter into the viewpoints of at least some opponents of the system.
Let me put it another way. Most Welfare opponents may not be racist. But I would guess most racists are Welfare opponents. Except, of course, the racists who are also Welfare recipients.
That clarified, I'm happy to move on. :)
--- End quote ---
I agree to move on, my comment was precisely aimed at the extreme comments on this thread in which analogies were drawn to Nazi death camps. You were not the person making those comments, and your reference to possible racism or classism as motivators among those who advocate welfare reform was made in a manner that was well within the bounds of a serious discussion. I regret that you felt I was strongly objecting to any of your posts. Since I have met you on this web site we have disagreed very strongly, but I have never noted that you use those types of attacks.
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