The World Beyond BetterMost > Anything Goes
Why are the poor, poor?
brokeplex:
--- Quote from: seriouscrayons on May 06, 2008, 05:13:46 pm ---
Well, yeah. But the balance of risk vs. reward has to be reasonable. Risking jumping off a cliff on the chance you might learn how to fly is not reasonable. I'm not saying your plan is that outrageous, just that it would require a lot more knowledge of the current job market and the projected job market than I myself have. A lot of technical jobs eventually won't exist, or won't exist in this country, or won't be performed by a human. Will the number of remaining jobs be sufficient? What happens to people who have received narrow training for a now obsolete job? The broader the education, the easier the career shift.
I don't know enough about why people drop out of high school. Is it because they don't feel the academics are useful, or is it for other reasons -- lifestyle, pregnancy, delinquency, parents' examples ... ? Personally, as I said, I don't know. If the majority drop out because they don't find the coursework relevant, you could be right.
Aren't these pretty common already? I know they had them in my high school. It was called Vo-Tech (vocational/technical). There was also a program called "Mini School" for would-be dropouts, and SWAS, School Within a School, where higher achievers worked on independent study projects.
--- End quote ---
Vocational partnerships with existing employers who have evidenced both a desire to offer input into the curriculum and job opportunities that need filling, would preclude proffering a vocational education in disappearing markets. The employers who would set up internship programs would not do so if they did not see the need for the student to fill a real job in the real world after graduation. The marketplace is a much better indicator of those needs than the educational bureaucracy.
Vocational training most definitely not so narrow that it would only apply to one specific job with one specific employer or group of similar employers. Apprenticeships / Internships out of vocational schools are based upon a broader education than just the minutiae of a single employers needs. It is based upon the needs of entire industries and related industries.
Two Examples:
1) a vocational student enters the workshop internship programs specializing in a "machinist" position in a GM plant that makes SUV's. Because of the high price of gas, the SUV market collapses and there are layoffs at the GM plant. That student however would be prepared to offer their skills at any number of business operations both large and small who wish to hire machinists. In this case, because of the change in market conditions, the guaranteed job evaporates but because of a highly marketable skill, can easily be replaced.
2) a Student graduates from traditional curriculum in a high school, no voc ed, no internships, just a diploma, which will get him or her into a community college, a McDonald's job and that is about all. So, what are this student's prospects compared to the vocational tech student? Not even a close comparison, one studied relevant material and had hands on experience with something that will get him or her a good job, the other is just more fodder ejected from the public schools, clueless about the future and with small prospects of success.
I love the idea of independent study projects, and not just for high academic achievers, we need such projects for those who can achieve in non academically oriented subjects. Why not train mechanics this way, or machinists, or those interested in agriculture or mining?
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: broketrash on May 07, 2008, 12:37:03 pm ---2) a Student graduates from traditional curriculum in a high school, no voc ed, no internships, just a diploma, which will get him or her into a community college, a McDonald's job and that is about all.
--- End quote ---
... Or into a post-secondary vocational school. Here's just one of the online websites that lists them in every state in what appear to be dozens or hundreds of categories:
http://www.rwm.org/rwm/
Here, for example, is a list for Texas. On the site, clicking on any of those fields takes you to a list of schools that provide training in that area.
1. Aircraft: A&P Technician, Ground and Flight, Pilot
2. Arts & Design: Applied and Creative, Design, Media, Fashion
3. Automotive: Automotive Technician, Driver, Heavy Equipment Operator, Repair, Trucking
4. Barbering & Cosmetology: Esthetician, Cosmetologist, Hair Design, Facial, Make-Up, Manicuring, Nails, Salon Management
5. Bartending
6. Business: Accounting, Administrative, General Office, Management, Marketing, Organizational Psychology, Secretarial
7. Computers & Information Technology: CAD, Installer, Multimedia, Programmer, Repairer, Web Designer
8. Construction: Estimator, Heavy Equipment Operator, Project Manager, Superintendent
9. Culinary
10. Electronics & HVAC : Assembler, Electrical and Electronics Equipment Installer, Equipment Repairer, HVAC
11. Fashion Design: Apparel, Illustration, Merchandising
12. Gaming: Casino Dealer, Machine Repair, Table Games
13. Healthcare & Medical: Dental, Massage Therapy, Medical Assistant, Medical Office, Medical Records Technician, Nursing, Optician, Paramedic, Pharmacy Technician, X-Ray Technician
14. Inspection & Environmental: Hazardous Waste Technician, Home Inspection, Inspector, Quality Assurance
15. Jewelry: Bench, Designer, Identification, Diamond Setter
16. Legal: Court Reporter, Criminal Justice, Legal Office, Paralegal
17. Machinist: Machine Operator, CNC Machinist, CNC Operator
18. Plumber: Pipefitter
19. Private Investigation: Investigation, Security, Protection
20. Telecommunications: Assembler, Cable Installer, Fiber Optic Technician, Networking, Repairer, Systems Installer
21. Travel: Flight Attendant, Hotel Management, Reservationist, Travel Agent
22. Welding
--- Quote ---I love the idea of independent study projects, and not just for high academic achievers, we need such projects for those who can achieve in non academically oriented subjects. Why not train mechanics this way, or machinists, or those interested in agriculture or mining?
--- End quote ---
Well, again, many do.
Clyde-B:
What about people with limited talents and abilities? Are we just supposed to be Darwinian about them?
And the elderly, if they've worked all their lives in jobs that don't pay enough to save anything decent for retirement?
Are we only going to provide opportunities and advantages and safety nets for the able?
HerrKaiser:
--- Quote from: Clyde-B on May 07, 2008, 02:04:04 pm --- What about people with limited talents and abilities? Are we just supposed to be Darwinian about them?
--- End quote ---
Everyone has ability to do "something" unless they are completely mentally or physically handicapped. The darwinian part is how the folks with any capabilites choose to use them.
--- Quote from: Clyde-B on May 07, 2008, 02:04:04 pm --- And the elderly, if they've worked all their lives in jobs that don't pay enough to save anything decent for retirement?
--- End quote ---
That is what SS is for and medicare. Not much, but millions are living on those payments. It will get worse, though, because of the sheer numbers of baby boomers reaching retirment ages...and i don't get the impression that the current pop culture has much compassion for anything other than the next court date for Britney Spears! ;)
--- Quote from: Clyde-B on May 07, 2008, 02:04:04 pm ---
Are we only going to provide opportunities and advantages and safety nets for the able?
--- End quote ---
Safety nets are supposed to be for everyone. As I have mentioned before, the safety nets have turned into hammocks for many. As a result, the revenues available are no longer sufficient to act as safety nets for the "able" when they get into trouble/need. Try getting public help if you are not a government-labeled minority or with any assets. It will not happen.
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: injest on May 06, 2008, 06:48:47 pm ---for people that answer the phone?? You're kidding...
--- End quote ---
Nope. Not kiddin'. There is an organization that certifies medical assistants. They require that an extensive and wide-ranging exam be passed for certification.
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