The World Beyond BetterMost > Anything Goes
Why are the poor, poor?
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: Clyde-B on May 09, 2008, 11:35:10 am ---I've always found ignoring people I disagree with to be a risky business.
They may be making me look the fool and I don't even know it.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
--- End quote ---
I think you may be correct, Clyde. ;) ;D
Incidentally, if you check back far enough on this thread, you will see that I did not suggest that he was advocating "Nazi death camps," only concentration camps (there is a difference)--which struck me as a logical extension of his proposal to legally force contraception on people in order for them to qualify for welfare benefits.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on May 09, 2008, 11:16:35 am ---I believe she is using pretend as a verb, not as an adjective.
But then I guess I'm on ignore, so you won't see this. ;D
--- End quote ---
Thank you, Jeff. You are correct.
Broketrash, I wasn't sure whether you were joking. But as Jeff points out, my sentence should be read (and I guess should have been written) as, "Head Start does just about exactly what you (Kaiser) pretend that conservatives do ..."
Sure, I would like to believe that conservatives are just pretending to believe all those ridiculous things and actually have a secret agenda -- like those they often accusing Democrats of having! -- in which they favor more sensible positions. Sadly, I must accept that this is not the case.
For example, here's one of those things I am amazed that anyone would actually believe:
--- Quote from: broketrash on May 09, 2008, 11:18:00 am ---NO Kaiser, I am sorry, but the goal of the left in their "helpful" programs is CONTROL. If you are directly dependent on me to give you your bread, like the underclass is vis a vis the welfare bureaucracy, then when I say "frog jump" you will respond "How high SIR!"
--- End quote ---
This time, you DEFINITELY must be joking! Exactly what left-wing orders do you see people in the underclass as obediently following?
Jeff Wrangler:
And isn't it amazing that the Conservative Right doesn't see their own ideas as attempts to CONTROL people?
Are they really that blind? That disingenuous? Or--I no longer care if I get in trouble for this--that stupid?
HerrKaiser:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on May 08, 2008, 10:59:24 pm ---This is so twisted and convoluted in its logic that it defies comprehension, let alone response. You're saying something is only compassionate if it succeeds? I say that's completely wrong. Compassion has to do with motives, with, say, wanting to improve housing for the poor. If the first attempt to solve the problem doesn't work, then by all means move on and try something else, but that in no way means the motivation was not compassionate.
And your bizarre reference to Happy Meals, etc., is totally off the mark because I was talking about needs, not wants.
--- End quote ---
It really would help if you actually read posts before exclaiming on them with inaccuracies.
The points I made were:
"It seems ludicrous to think hard-nosed anticipations of success or failure need to be completely related to compassion to ensure the efforts success."
"compassion and results are indeed related."
Neither of those say "something is only compassionate if it succeeds" which was your altered interpretation. I truly do not understand why there is an ongoing campaign by you and seriouscrayons to misrepresent and make your misrepresentions nasty and personal.
Have you heard of the concept of 'tough love'? That is exemplory of compassion with a eye toward a successful outcome rather than simply delivering another "fix" that has only short term satisfaction, if that. The entitlement programs have largely not been 'tough love' and the results have been, by nearly all measurements, failures in terms of helping people get out of the cycle of not being able to care for themselves.
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on May 09, 2008, 12:04:22 pm ---I think you may be correct, Clyde. ;) ;D
Incidentally, if you check back far enough on this thread, you will see that I did not suggest that he was advocating "Nazi death camps," only concentration camps (there is a difference)--which struck me as a logical extension of his proposal to legally force contraception on people in order for them to qualify for welfare benefits.
--- End quote ---
Heya,
I've been reading along in this fascinating thread but haven't jumped in yet with a post. I can't resist reconsidering the rather(extremely) radical suggestion of forcing contraception or even sterilization on poor people (as suggested long ago in this thread). It reminds me strongly of the 18th century essay “A Modest Proposal” by Jonathan Swift... Of course, Swift was being ironic and trying to make a social-political point against harsh and dehumanizing measures that abuse the poor.
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