Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
TOTW 18/08: The lines from the trailer
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: Front-Ranger on May 21, 2008, 11:49:42 pm ---I agree with Amanda. There are even more meanings. We all passed through a gay period in our lives, it's a natural part of growing up.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: SunShadow on May 22, 2008, 11:25:55 am ---Yes, I think you are right. Everyone at least stops to consider before figuring out if they are gay or straight or somewhere in between. And sometimes there is cause for people to reconsider when they haven't been honest with themselves.
--- End quote ---
Well, this certainly might be the case about all folks dealing with a period of questioning their sexuality to determine whether or not they themselves are gay, bisexual or straight. I think that makes a lot of sense.
But, what I really mean by the inclusive term "we" and the idea that this immediately causes the viewer (regardless of gender or sexuality) to identify with the predicament of a gay couple struggling with the obstacles presented in the film. And, to identify with a gay romance as something that can be emotionally touching and significant even if the viewer is not male or gay. It also implies that secrets, lies etc. are aspects of all our lives in one way or another.
myprivatejack:
They say"never return to the place you've been happy",as a kind of maintaining the image and the memories of the happiness you felt there.However,for me BBM is not only a physical place,but a metaphor of the life they wanted to live and that circumstances-and often themselves...-didn't allow them to.There,Ennis and Jack could be themselves,feeling and living as they were at their inner self;it was as their Paradise on Earth,from which they had to descend to find the real life,the one that carried prohibitions,denials and problems to their love...It's to say,the question is not return or not to a place,but to the experiences they lived there;that,even if they were trying to remodelate their daily life to get it closer to BBM ideal-as Belair has said-they never obtained but a simple and often sad imitation of that...So,really both of them,never returned to the mountain,not in the same conditions that in 1963;they could never return to that place indeed.
optom3:
--- Quote from: myprivatejack on May 22, 2008, 12:43:54 pm ---They say"never return to the place you've been happy",as a kind of maintaining the image and the memories of the happiness you felt there.However,for me BBM is not only a physical place,but a metaphor of the life they wanted to live and that circumstances-and often themselves...-didn't allow them to.There,Ennis and Jack could be themselves,feeling and living as they were at their inner self;it was as their Paradise on Earth,from which they had to descend to find the real life,the one that carried prohibitions,denials and problems to their love...It's to say,the question is not return or not to a place,but to the experiences they lived there;that,even if they were trying to remodelate their daily life to get it closer to BBM ideal-as Belair has said-they never obtained but a simple and often sad imitation of that...So,really both of them,never returned to the mountain,not in the same conditions that in 1963;they could never return to that place indeed.
--- End quote ---
I tend to agree with that.For them BBM was their paradise.What is so gut wrenchingly awful,is the fact that even on BBM things were not as they seemed.They were being observed.
This film and S.S just have so many layers of tragedy,it is hard to bear. They spend the rest of their lives trying to go back to something that they never really had.
Everything for them is tainted. In the S.S they are described as"flying in the euphoric bitter air,looking down -------- suspended above ordinary affairs--------they believed themselves invisible"
How much is packed into so few words. They were euphoric,inspite of themselves,they knew what they had found,but it was bitter,tainted already,as they were being watched and would soon have to descend to real or ordinary life.
On BBM it seems to the two of them ,they are flying, so euphoric are they.They have found they believe,even if only fleetingly their wings, and with it the freedom to fly,out of reach of prejudice and judgement.
It breaks me completely to think even that tiny moment in time is bitter/tainted.They are cetainly not invisible as we know.
When they descend, Ennis "felt he was in a slow motion ,but headlong,irreversible fall" It seems as if he is literally falling from heaven back down to earth.He is unaware at the time ,as is Jack,that their heaven was not as perfect as they thought.
He could never go back,it was irreversible.That was true for them both on so many levels.In one sense they could never go back,because what they were trying to go back to,simply did not exist.
Life for Ennis and Jack as for many of us, is reduced to one great big , if only.
If only we could turn back the clock,the pages of time,so many phrases for it.
But maybe what we are also being shown,is that we cannot go back,because what we thought we had is probably not as it once seemed.So we should grab life by the balls and seize the day,while we can.
Unfortunately for Jack and Ennis it was too late,but it is interesting that Heath very much had a seize the day attitude.I know we all wish we could turn that clock back,but I'm betting Heath probably did not have too many if only moments.He seemed to grab every opportunity that life threw his way.He probably could not be much more different to Ennis.
I am trying these days, no matter how hard ,to make more of all the good things and stop dwelling on all the bad. BBM affected me in so many ways, and still continues to do so.
I would suspect in the few pages of the short story, there is a whole lifetime of lessons to be learned.
BlissC:
--- Quote from: Fran on May 21, 2008, 04:59:43 pm ---I especially like the "we" in Nos. 2, 3, and 4. The lines could have been, "There are places they can't return," "There are lies they have to tell," etc. To me, the "we" emphasizes the universal message of the film. It speaks to everyone -- well, everyone who's open to the message.
--- End quote ---
As Fran said, I think the "we" is important, and I suspect it's intentional.
--- Quote from: optom3 on May 19, 2008, 10:36:46 pm ---So Brokeback almost becomes a shrine to what they once had.It will never be the same again,no matter how hard they try to recapture it.They still love each other,even if the words are never said.
But it is no longer simple,they have to lie,to others as well as denying the love to themselves,at least on the part of Ennis.
No matter what was said on Brokeback,at least for that time it was just them,the force of nature,no lies involving other people,even if they were lying to themselves.
So no, they can never return.
Just like we can never turn back the clock, much a we may wish too.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: SunShadow on May 22, 2008, 11:45:30 am ---Regrets are the hardest part of life, at least for me, and I suspect for a lot of people. In other words, "if you can't fix it you've got to stand it."
--- End quote ---
That line sums it up perfectly - often life, and in the film though it wasn't one of the taglines, it's almost the entire story encapsulated in that one phrase. Ennis and Jack spent the rest of their lives trying to stand it because they couldn't, or didn't think they could, fix it.
It's a phrase I've found myself using a lot over the past few months, sometimes in a "negative", resigned way, but also in a positive way too. On Saturday as part of the official launch of a charity I had to give a speech to a meeting of people who'd come along for the launch of this thing that's been four years in the planning, and is a big thing, and an important step forward for those living with the medical condition the charity's about. I hadn't prepared anything in advance, I'm used to public speaking, and I tend to have a rough idea of what I'm going to say, but on the day I just wing it. When I stood up I'd no idea really how I was going to phrase it, how it was going to come out, but predictably (for me anyway) I found myself lapsing into Brokie-isms. Brokeback's had a huge impact on how I deal with my health issues, and how I view life, and the whole theme of my speech was about living for the day and making it count, and trying to take something positive out of what can be a very negative experience. When I opened my mouth, out came "If you can't fix it, you've got to stand it" and by the time I ended up uttering those immortal words, "ain't no reins on this one" I knew I was doomed to spend the entire speech talking in Brokie-isms! :laugh: I kind of turned it on it's head though, because although you can't fix it (the medical problem), you can stand it, and you can take a stand against it. That was something Ennis and Jack could never do - they were doomed keeping their secret, never returning to that place, getting tangled in the lies, and denying the truths. Though I love the "if you can't fix it" line, and I think it sums up the story in many ways, it wouldn't have made a good tagline, or a line for the trailer.
Watching the trailer again it's almost like a 60 second summary of the story (but with no spoilers) and the lines in the trailer almost tell the story too. I can't think of any other form of words that would encapsulate the story and the message of the film any better.
It was interesting on Sunday while I was away watching the film with a group of people who hadn't seen Brokeback before. Only two out of the eight others had seen it, and though beforehand they'd all been joking about it, and I'd agreed I wouldn't complain about them making gay cowboy jokes, but it was noticeable as the film went on that gradually the jokes subsided and by the time it got to the last camping trip scene, they were all watching in silence. Afterwards one of the guys said to me he could understand after seeing the film what I'd meant about it, and about the whole idea of going forward and seizing opportunities, and not looking back with regrets (and there followed a 2 hour deep and meaningful about life and such like).
Very interesting to watch the film with a bunch of non-Brokies though and see their reactions.
--- Quote from: optom3 on May 22, 2008, 02:31:04 pm ---I tend to agree with that.For them BBM was their paradise.What is so gut wrenchingly awful,is the fact that even on BBM things were not as they seemed.They were being observed.
This film and S.S just have so many layers of tragedy,it is hard to bear. They spend the rest of their lives trying to go back to something that they never really had.
Everything for them is tainted. In the S.S they are described as"flying in the euphoric bitter air,looking down -------- suspended above ordinary affairs--------they believed themselves invisible"
How much is packed into so few words. They were euphoric,inspite of themselves,they knew what they had found,but it was bitter,tainted already,as they were being watched and would soon have to descend to real or ordinary life.
On BBM it seems to the two of them ,they are flying, so euphoric are they.They have found they believe,even if only fleetingly their wings, and with it the freedom to fly,out of reach of prejudice and judgement.
It breaks me completely to think even that tiny moment in time is bitter/tainted.They are cetainly not invisible as we know.
--- End quote ---
So true, and also so sad. Even their paradise was a tainted one, and perhaps it's a sign that even in seeming perfection there's nothing that's perfect.
--- Quote ---If only we could turn back the clock,the pages of time,so many phrases for it.
But maybe what we are also being shown,is that we cannot go back,because what we thought we had is probably not as it once seemed.So we should grab life by the balls and seize the day,while we can.
--- End quote ---
The "seize the day" thing is probably one of the biggest things I've taken from the film - it's interesting though that you say that maybe we can't go back because what we thought we had is probably not as it once seemed. I know it's often said that in hindsight we all have 20/20 vision, and time and rose tinted spectacles do tend have a tendency sometimes to warp past events into an idealistic vision of perfection when maybe if we looked more closely we'd remember that maybe it wasn't all quite as perfect as we like to remember.
loneleeb3:
I don't know, I think what they had on the mountain was perfect.
For the first and only time in their lives they were who they were supposed to be.
They were free to love each other and what love it was. All new filled with excitement and promise.
They were suspended above ordinary things. The were as the Gods on Olympus.
They may have been seen by Aquirre but they didn't know that. They were in love and they were free to express it for however short a time it was.
Some people never get that.
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