Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum

a girl with an opinon

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iluvchocolate:
Hi there I'm new to the forum and a fan of Broke back mountain. I have gotten on the topic of the movie with someone I am close with.  And I want your opinion on this.

I really don't care about the fact the movie is about two men.  That really wasn't what the movie was about for me.  It was about cheating.   Bottom line they cheated on their wifes.. It doesn't make it right just because it was two men back in the 1960's.  Cheating was frowned upon then just as much if not more. I would be saying the same thing if they were in a same sex marriage.  Just because their two people of the same sex doesn't make this right. 

I am a married, hetersexual woman, with two young girls.  And have had gay men for friends and wish I was still close with them and also have been friends with someone who had a sex change.  So I find the movie about two people beening in love. It's just the fact that their cheating I can't get past.  When I try to explain my side I have been told I'm wrong.

 Don't get me wrong I love the movie!!  I just think people have this movie all wrong.

AM I WRONG???   Whats your opinion on this people????

Phillip Dampier:

--- Quote from: iluvchocolate on March 29, 2006, 10:07:53 pm ---I really don't care about the fact the movie is about two men.  That really wasn't what the movie was about for me.  It was about cheating.   Bottom line they cheated on their wifes.. It doesn't make it right just because it was two men back in the 1960's.  Cheating was frowned upon then just as much if not more. I would be saying the same thing if they were in a same sex marriage.  Just because their two people of the same sex doesn't make this right.
--- End quote ---

I understand your position on this.  That's why BBM was such a tragedy for everyone.  Jack and Ennis got married because that is what was expected of them.  But then their true feelings for one another sort of took them away.  There's a part of me that says they should have never gotten married in the first place once they had an affair, but they also seemed to believe that "this is a one shot deal" and perhaps supposed they would never get back into it after that summer was over.

I also think BBM deals with reality in a more adult manner than a lot of movies that seem to have cookie cutter pat answers to every situation.  You know the kind of movies where everything ends up sweetness and light and happy and then the credits roll and people drift out of the theatre.  Unfortunately, BBM is not escapist movie fare by any means.  For a lot of us, it rips emotions right open and leaves us with tremendous angst.

I don't think anyone of us thinks that Alma and Lureen weren't as much victims of the circumstances and Jack and Ennis were.  Thankfully, at least both fathers seemed to maintain a commitment and connection to their kids and Ennis paid child support/alimony.

Was it wrong that Jack and Ennis cheated?  Using a strict moral test, of course it was wrong.  But then considering the state of cheating and affairs and broken marriages in general in this country, a large percentage of the population can't afford to throw moral judgments because many of us have fallen short ourselves in one way or another.

The fact they cheated should bother us.  But so should the fact they could not fulfill a dream of a life together because of the oppression rural Wyoming life offered to those different from the norm.  If they truly loved one another, they should have been together because of that, not held back out of fear of being killed by angry intolerant neighbors.

So perhaps the question here is not whether you can get past the fact they cheated, but rather looking at the whole picture of injustice done to every character in the movie.  Annie Proulx made it clear that how we finish the story, as well as interpret it, is going to be colored by our own experiences and who we are as individuals.  That you are a married mom with kids that you love very much is going to color your experiences and interpretations because you would never want a similar thing to happen to you or your kids, and that is totally understandable.

Coming at this film as a gay guy, I have some different experiences and interpretations.  I've been in a committed relationship with a guy for almost 20 years myself.  I can't imagine myself tolerating an endless parade of excuses from Ennis about why we couldn't be together, and I'd probably have given up on him long before 20 years had run its course.  I also couldn't imagine contemplating a life with someone other than my partner at this point.  But I'm not Jack or Ennis or Lureen or Alma, so I can't say I can find myself in any of their shoes and say how I would react or deal with the things they've all done.

Real life is messy.  All we can do is try to treat each other with honesty and respect, and try to learn the lesson that we should live our lives as who we are, not what others expect us to be.

Welcome to BetterMost.

Rayn:
"Real life is messy.  All we can do is try to treat each other with honesty and respect, and try to learn the lesson that we should live our lives as who we are, not what others expect us to be."   

Phillip

Amen to that, Phillip!

Life's messy and people are imperfect.  They don't always fit into the social roles and models imposed upon them by society i.e. that family, friends, employers, pastors, priests, politicians or governments want them to fit into and cheating on one's partner, by any moral measure, isn't nearly as dreadful and painfully destructive as someone being beaten and murdered because he doesn't meet the social expectations of others.  I think of poor Earl and maybe even Jack! 

BBM is a true reflection of life as it was and still is in some parts of the nation which is why it resonates so long after the credits roll up and are gone.  Think of Matthew Shephard.  His murder wasn't so long ago, right?  Well, what can we do about it?

We need to change the way we live and the laws we live under so that people are happier with their partners (so all people have the freedom to marry) and don't cheat. We need to decrease the amount of fear and violence in our society and the world. 

And how can we do that?  By teaching and increasing tolerance and acceptance of people who are different from us so that they aren't belittled, harassed, attacked, beaten up, tortured and murdered because "someone thinks" they are wrong! 

Damn, don't get me goin' or I'll be on a soapbox soon... but I do mean every word of it.


Peace,
Rayn

bbm_stitchbuffyfan:

--- Quote from: Phillip on March 30, 2006, 01:09:39 am --- If they truly loved one another, they should have been together because of that, not held back out of fear of being killed by angry intolerant neighbors.

--- End quote ---

Your response took the words right out of my mouth, Phillip, and you articulated yourself very well in that post. But I'd like to say that I think they "truly loved one another." I really do. The only time you ever see them content and honestly happy is when they are with each other. And I'm not saying that you're indicating that they aren't in love either; I'm just saying, if anyone reads that sentence and gets that impression (admittedly, that was my first impression but then I came to a new conclusion), that there was a very deep (and beautiful, I must add  :)) love between them. What I did get out of your statement was that, because they loved each other, they should have been allowed to be together and not have to worry about any impending gay-bashings.

All in all, great response.

I agree that it's greatly unfortunate that Alma and Lureen had to endure such pain from the boys' secret affair but I just cannot find it in myself to blame Ennis and Jack. I care too much about them, and feel too much sympathy for them, to point fingers at them for what they did. These men were so in love with each other and so lost and (deep-down) depressive without each other, that even if they didn't cheat on their wives, their marriages still probably would have failed. (I realize Lureen and Jack's marriage didn't come to an end in this film but we are informed that their marriage is progressing awfully.)

www.jlodown.com

RouxB:
"Don't get me wrong I love the movie!!  I just think people have this movie all wrong.
AM I WRONG???   Whats your opinion on this people?"

Well, I can't say you are wrong as to your reaction. I would suggest you are wront in saying that "people have this movie all wrong". I don't think most people, at least in this group-going out on a limb and speaking for others based on their posting histories-think the adultery was a great thing-I think they see it as a product of the environment in which the story takes place. Ennis and Jack are not heroes-they are just people living miserable lives because of who they love. In this I think the movie is all "right"-it shows the destruction that results when people are caged.

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