Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
TOTW 23/08: Jack, his mother and The Shirts
brokeplex:
--- Quote from: injest on August 30, 2008, 10:25:30 pm ---maybe she didnt' tell him about the Pentecost because she knew about him (at some level) and couldnt' reconcile the love of her child with the 'you are going to hell' of her religion so she tried to compartmentalize them..keep them apart.
--- End quote ---
or, she actually discussed religion with Jack, and Jack attended sunday school and knew all about his mother's religion. in short, Jack was lying to Ennis, and he lied because he didn't want to discuss those religious beliefs at that moment.
Artiste:
Merci Wayne !
Wonderfully said as you describe:
Mothers don't always know. too much generalization can confuse the issue. And then they may know and not what to acknowleddge what they know.
Case in point. I knew my son was gay before his mother did, and he was about 30 when this became apparent to her. But there is a mitigating factor here. I knew that I could have been as queer as a 3$ bill since I was 13, IF!!! I had met the right man under the right circumstances. But in those days (I'm 75 YO) the right circumstances were very rare and the right man was as much in denial about what could be as I was.
Pray that you are well and happy too now... these days! Did you find the right man ? Would his mother give you his shirts like Jack's mother did to Ennis? - May I ask?
Au revoir,
hugs!
BlissC:
An equally valid point. Over the years Jack lies to Ennis a fair amount to "protect" him, though in this instance I think it would be definitely more about not risking upsetting the apple-cart and freaking Ennis out by bringing religion into the mix, because I think by that time (the Pentecost discussion) at some level they were both aware that something was happening.
--- Quote from: optom3 on August 27, 2008, 12:41:15 pm ---My mother bought my husband an aftershave a few years ago, that for me can only be worn by one person. I nearly freaked when I saw the bottle.It was just wrong.I had to bite my tongue,and wait for it to be empty.
--- End quote ---
I'm the same. An old college friend of mine from years back who really helped me out and helped me sort my head out always wore Obsession aftershave, and even now, nearly 20 years later if I smell that I think of him.
Marge_Innavera:
--- Quote from: BlissC on August 31, 2008, 08:25:53 am ---That's an interesting idea. I've often thought before that it's very telling that Jack tells Ennis about his understanding of what the Pentecost is and then there's the line about "fellas like you and me marchin' off to hell", but I never really got beyond that and considered why his mother didn't tell him about the Pentecost. From the little Jack says about her and a couple of things from the scene at the ranch with Jack's parents after his death it's obvious she's a very religious lady, and yet as you say, it seems strange that she didn't tell Jack about the Penecost.
--- End quote ---
I've also wondered if she had been raised Pentacostal and had not attended church for many years -- maybe just because of the amount of work she had to do and the distances involved, she'd drifted away from organized religion and kept her personal faith. With the absence of a religious community, she might well have neglected to tell Jack about any but the most basic things. That might have been due to either isolation, having drifted away from her own beliefs over the years but still clinging to the religious identity, or both.
For recent times at any rate, that isn't unusual. Polls of Americans' religious beliefs indicate a high level of personal belief but a steady growth in the "unchurched."
As far as Jack's relationship with Ennis is concerned, I can't imagine a woman of that generation and background actively or consciously approving of it. However, the idea of Jack being back on the ranch permanently and working with a 'friend', however she wanted to think about it, to get the ranch back in shape might well have been a dream of her own. As a species, we seem to be set up to reconcile contradictory beliefs very efficiently when the motive is strong enough.
Mandy21:
--- Quote from: Marge_Innavera on September 06, 2008, 05:01:22 pm ---As far as Jack's relationship with Ennis is concerned, I can't imagine a woman of that generation and background actively or consciously approving of it. However, the idea of Jack being back on the ranch permanently and working with a 'friend', however she wanted to think about it, to get the ranch back in shape might well have been a dream of her own. As a species, we seem to be set up to reconcile contradictory beliefs very efficiently when the motive is strong enough.
--- End quote ---
Hey Marge, I love the way you worded that sentiment. My immediate reaction when watching that scene was that Jack's mom DID understand what had gone on between the two men. But then the more I thought about her religious nature, I questioned that reaction. I've always been confused about this scene. I'd like to believe that she knew and was understanding, even in opposition to OMT's NOT understanding. It seems set up that way, by Ang's camera angles of the two, directly in opposition to each other -- one in the background, and the better one, i.e., Mrs. Twist, in the foreground, semi-shaking her head, as if to say, "don't pay him no never-mind".
I don't know much about religion, never been to church in my life, hardly read any of the Bible, and don't have the first clue what the Pentecost was. Maybe we should analyze more why Jack presumed to tell Ennis what he *thought* the Pentecost was, rather than admitting fully that he didn't have a clue? And why would he be singing that song around the campfire, when he surely must have known a whole lot of non-religious songs???? Hmmmm, this has got me thinking now in a whole new direction. He could have sang "get a long, little doggie" or any other campfire tune. Why did he choose "I know I'll meet you on that final day. Water-walking Jesus, take me away."? Should we have seen this as foreshadowing?
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