Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
TOTW 23/08: Jack, his mother and The Shirts
Artiste:
Merci Mandy!
May I say: Of course, Jack's mother knows that Ennis loves Jack!
Likewise for Mr. Twist - Jack's father, you think?
Au revoir,
hugs!
BlissC:
--- Quote from: Mandy21 on September 06, 2008, 05:46:15 pm ---Hey Marge, I love the way you worded that sentiment. My immediate reaction when watching that scene was that Jack's mom DID understand what had gone on between the two men. But then the more I thought about her religious nature, I questioned that reaction. I've always been confused about this scene. I'd like to believe that she knew and was understanding, even in opposition to OMT's NOT understanding. It seems set up that way, by Ang's camera angles of the two, directly in opposition to each other -- one in the background, and the better one, i.e., Mrs. Twist, in the foreground, semi-shaking her head, as if to say, "don't pay him no never-mind".
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That's a really good point. I guess because we want Mrs Twist to have some understanding of Jack, and Jack's relationship with Ennis, it's easy to believe that she did have some understanding - especially in the face of OMT's obvious lack of understanding, but when you look at it more deeply, as Marge says, on the other hand it's difficult to imagine a woman of her generation approving. I guess anything's possible though. Despite her religious beliefs, alsorts of things could have shaped her views and opinions - perhaps things that on the outside don't seem significant.
Take my grandmothers for example. There was only a year between the two of them and both had similar upbringings in small villages that my grandad used to describe as "parochial", and both were raised as church-goers. On one side of the family though, my dad's mother, who died last year at 84, I could never have imagined discussing BBM with her. She had enough of a problem accepting sex outside marriage, so what she'd have made of a story about two gay cowboys, I don't know! On the other hand though, my mum's step-mother has a totally different outlook on so many things, and we discuss many things I could never have discussed with my other grandmother. She's never had a problem with my uncle being gay, and has always accepted him and his partner.
--- Quote ---I don't know much about religion, never been to church in my life, hardly read any of the Bible, and don't have the first clue what the Pentecost was. Maybe we should analyze more why Jack presumed to tell Ennis what he *thought* the Pentecost was, rather than admitting fully that he didn't have a clue? And why would he be singing that song around the campfire, when he surely must have known a whole lot of non-religious songs???? Hmmmm, this has got me thinking now in a whole new direction. He could have sang "get a long, little doggie" or any other campfire tune. Why did he choose "I know I'll meet you on that final day. Water-walking Jesus, take me away."? Should we have seen this as foreshadowing?
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Hmmm...that's an interesting one. If I remember rightly the SS describes it as a "dirge" (Dictionary.com: "1. a funeral song or tune, or one expressing mourning in commemoration of the dead; 2. any composition resembling such a song or tune in character, as a poem of lament for the dead or solemn, mournful music".) There is something almost prophetic about it - infact all through the story with their constant goodbyes (Ain't never enough time...*sigh*) there are constant reminders of the shortness of their time together, and I remember the first time I saw the film at the cinema, all the way through there seemed to be constant hints of something bad coming, and infact that was my overriding feeling from about mid way through the film - I knew something was coming and I knew it was something bad, and whatever it was I didn't want to know. It was almost like the words in the SS AP uses when they're coming down off Brokeback, a "headlong, irreversible fall". It's like Annie Proux and Ang Lee were giving us clues all the way through.
Artiste:
Jack must have told his mother about the blood... when she was to wash it?
LauraGigs:
--- Quote from: Mandy21 ---Why did he choose "I know I'll meet you on that final day. Water-walking Jesus, take me away."? Should we have seen this as foreshadowing?
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Wow! What a great observation. One can discuss symbolic elements of this film for years, and yet there's always something new to read...
Great thread and great posts, everybody.
optom3:
--- Quote from: Mandy21 on September 06, 2008, 05:46:15 pm ---Hey Marge, I love the way you worded that sentiment. My immediate reaction when watching that scene was that Jack's mom DID understand what had gone on between the two men. But then the more I thought about her religious nature, I questioned that reaction. I've always been confused about this scene. I'd like to believe that she knew and was understanding, even in opposition to OMT's NOT understanding. It seems set up that way, by Ang's camera angles of the two, directly in opposition to each other -- one in the background, and the better one, i.e., Mrs. Twist, in the foreground, semi-shaking her head, as if to say, "don't pay him no never-mind".
I don't know much about religion, never been to church in my life, hardly read any of the Bible, and don't have the first clue what the Pentecost was. Maybe we should analyze more why Jack presumed to tell Ennis what he *thought* the Pentecost was, rather than admitting fully that he didn't have a clue? And why would he be singing that song around the campfire, when he surely must have known a whole lot of non-religious songs???? Hmmmm, this has got me thinking now in a whole new direction. He could have sang "get a long, little doggie" or any other campfire tune. Why did he choose "I know I'll meet you on that final day. Water-walking Jesus, take me away."? Should we have seen this as foreshadowing?
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I had never really given Jack's choce of song much thought before.In the s.s Ennis also sings a song called "strawberry roan" which is presumably about a horse.We know from later in the story that horses are one of the few things that Ennis feels any empathy with, as in the reunion scene, he says "little darlin" to Jack, an endearment he keeps solely for his horses and daughters.
Specifically referring to the s.s here,does the choice of song by Ennis reveal, (comming as it does after the paw the white out of the moon section,) that even if it is only at a subconcious level, he is starting to fall in love with Jack?
The choice of song by Jack could have a few meanings I think.Maybe as it refers to water walking Jesus, Jack is hoping for some miracle for himself,to bring Ennis to him.It could also be a portent of things to come.As with Ennis it could be his subconcious, connecting his mother, who I think he loved,and sung the hymn to him, with Ennis who he has started to fall in love with.
So many permutations possible with just 2 songs. The romantic in me, likes to think, that in the s.s the choice of music by the two is a further indication that they are being drawn more and more to each other, at some very deep level. It cannot be coincidence that it is that night where they first come together.
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