Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
The mysterious "I love you" and other nearly indiscernible moments
serious crayons:
Well, it sounds like you made a good effort, Chris. And your subjects' reactions seem to match the reactions of people on this board -- we all continue to disagree despite double or even triple-digit viewings.
--- Quote from: Aussie Chris on August 03, 2006, 10:08:46 am ---Everyone seemed to be the most sure that there was definitely no "F*ck Me", we could only pick up what we presume were breathing, grunts (etc), their clothing moving, belt buckles, and the sounds associated with their changing postures. We couldn't hear anything that sounded like words at all.
--- End quote ---
I pretty much agree with this. I listened yesterday on my computer with the volume cranked and the speakers pressed to my ears and couldn't hear anything beyond gasps or whatever. Some of those gasps COULD say "f*ck me" -- I can't absolutely rule that out -- but to my ears they could just as easily be gasps. There was nothing that makes them sound more like "f*ck me" than like anything else. And the fact that it seems slightly unlikely that he would say that pushes me a bit in the other direction.
--- Quote ---Skip to the "I love you" scene. This was dismissed by the others quite quickly as non-existent, but I encouraged them to look and listen carefully because Ennis' mouth clearly moves as if to say several words just as he lifts the sleave of the shirts. However, my sister pointed out that the clearest sound during that time was Ennis' breathing, and at the exact moment of mouth movement we could clearly hear an exhalation.
--- End quote ---
I can certainly understand this reaction. But to my ears, the sound he makes when his mouth moves resembles words -- admittedly very indistinct ones. I don't hear him breathing at other times during the scene except maybe when he smells the shirts (admittedly, I haven't watched it lately). To me, those three one-syllable vocalizations stand out among other sounds he makes, implying that they are actual words, and are too short and close together to sound like exhalations.
On the likelihood scale, "I love you" sounds improbable at first, but actually far less so, once you get used to the idea, than "fuck me." Though the fact that people -- including me -- came to see/hear it who previously didn't even want to believe it was there is telling. As contrast, I've seen enough testimony on behalf of "fuck me" that I'm perfectly open to the idea, but still can't hear it. When I first noticed "I love you," I was scornful of the idea, yet heard it anyway.
But your experiment and your friends' experience are interesting. I think maybe this will just be one of those things that dfferent viewers will always see in different ways, no matter how many times they watch it. (Though I have seen people switch sides.)
--- Quote ---Seemingly easier to hear was the "sorry" / "s'alright". Much more debate was generated though with two camps forming. The first heard one "sorry" followed by two "s'alrights", while the second that it was three "s'alrights" citing no mouth movements from Ennis as proof (given that it only makes sense for Ennis to say this). But we've heard these arguments before, so it's not surprising that this group would be no different.
--- End quote ---
This I can completely understand. I'm in both camps myself, my opinion changing from one viewing to the next. I also occasionally step into the "Ennis says 'sorry'" camp. It's true his lips don't move, but Jack's don't move much either, and it is possible to whisper that without moving your mouth. But that's partly wishful thinking on my part, because that would be my preferred scenario.
Anyway, thanks for conducting this experiment, Chris! Well done. And it sounds like you have very fun friends who are willing to take the time to play along. :D
Daphne7661:
I'm not really sure why, but I feel as though my explanation of why Jack would be the one saying "I'm Sorry" in TS2, is not getting its full credit. It seems as though everyone is so busy trying to prove who said it, that they are closing their minds as to why (I believe) it was said in the first place.
Not to be duplicative, but I am posting here once again my reasons for believing it was Jack who said "I'm Sorry" in TS2.
I ask only that those of you who believe it was Ennis, and those of you who don't even hear it, will keep an open mind and consider my take on it upon your next viewing.
Thanks.
Ennis approaches the tent and kneels down in front of Jack.
Jack puts his hand on Ennis' arm and leans into him.
Ennis, nervous, of course, kind of quickly leans into Jack, maybe to kiss him. He is kind of interrupted because Jack takes his hat out of his hands. This somewhat disarms Ennis.
Jack then cups Ennis' face/cheek in his hand and turns those baby blues on Ennis (who could resist him at this point, my goodness) and says, "C'mere".
Ennis doesn't move much and is a bit resistant (nervous) to kiss Jack, so Jack says, "C'mon"
They kiss.
They release.
I think Jack feels a tad guilty for having "pushed" Ennis into kissing him (even though he didn't and Ennis really wanted to anyway, but was just nervous).
So, Jack hangs his head a bit and says, "I'm sorry" (sorry for what he perceives as having "pushed" Ennis too quickly perhaps).
Jack then says, "It's all right. It's all right. Lie Back. C'mon."
Ennis says nothing in this scene. I truly, truly believe that.
Of course, we all see and hear different things, but take what I wrote and watch it again.
I don't trust those subtitles at all. There are many other parts where they are wrong.
Front-Ranger:
Thank U for repeating that. I enjoyed reading it the first time, as well as now. I love the part about Ennis "leaning" into Jack. I've seen Heath do that in his on-screen kisses on several movies. He just closes his eyes and leans forward until contact with the other face is made. No pursing or anything. Now, Jake, that's another story. Even Heath said Jake was a good kisser.
serious crayons:
Daphne, I do give credit to your explanation. If Jack is the one saying sorry -- and if anyone says it, it's probably him -- that makes perfect sense. I'd just like to have Ennis be the one saying sorry, for being so brusque earlier.
--- Quote from: Front-Ranger on August 03, 2006, 01:31:16 pm --- He just closes his eyes and leans forward until contact with the other face is made.
--- End quote ---
LOL, Lee, perfect description. Jake may have a different approach, but this method would be fine by me! ;)
Daphne7661:
--- Quote from: Front-Ranger on August 03, 2006, 01:31:16 pm ---Now, Jake, that's another story. Even Heath said Jake was a good kisser.
--- End quote ---
Heath said Jake was a good kisser? Wow!!! I, myself, always thought Jake was a GREAT kisser, just by watching him, but, with Heath saying so himself, that's a good enough confirmation for me.
And thanks for the words of support on my TS2/I'm Sorry explanation....
I appreciate it.
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