Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
The mysterious "I love you" and other nearly indiscernible moments
dly64:
--- Quote from: Front-Ranger on August 03, 2006, 01:31:16 pm ---Now, Jake, that's another story. Even Heath said Jake was a good kisser.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: latjoreme on August 03, 2006, 01:44:14 pm ---LOL, Lee, perfect description. Jake may have a different approach, but this method would be fine by me! ;)
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Daphne7661 on August 03, 2006, 02:20:43 pm ---Heath said Jake was a good kisser? Wow!!! I, myself, always thought Jake was a GREAT kisser, just by watching him, but, with Heath saying so himself, that's a good enough confirmation for me.
--- End quote ---
Mark this moment ... it may be the only time that we are all in 100% agreement! ;D
2robots4u:
I also agree that this moment is a milestone, regarding who said what, etc., and I totally agree with Daphne's assessment of TS2.
Now, as to her comments about not trusting subtitles and how they are wrong: I sat down last week to analyze the subtitles. I closed every window and door in my condo to get as much silence as possible, set the DVD to play both sound and subtitles, and watch it, intently and uninterrupted, 2 complete times. I compared what I heard to what I read, replaying often to insure I heard/saw correctly. In the entire dialogue, I found only 3 instances where there wa a difference.
1. Spoken by Ennis: Alma and me, we'll be gettin' married...
Subtitle: Alma and me, we're gonna git maried....
2. Spoken by Jack: Friend, that's more words....
Subtitle: Man, that's more words...
3. Spoken by Alma: Hey, Ennis. You remember somebody, name of Jack?
Subtitle: Hey, Ennis. You know somebody, name of Jack?
When subtitles offer info, such as lighter flicking, sheep bleating, crickets chirping, horses neighing, pan clattering, coughing, clearing throat, bird calling, mmn , grunts, laughing, wind whistling, belts clinking, heavy breathing, Jack moaning, Ennis grunting, gasping, crows cawing, flies buzzing, urinating (yes, even direction as to what Jack was doing), I find it hard to believe they would alter the actual spoken word. Now, in translation from a foreign language to English, there will always be discrepancies because there are no literal translations, and paraphrasing is the option. But in this movie, where so much attention to detail of the dialogue is offered, I cannot agree with Daphne. I truly trust these subtitles. My friend Lynn, who is deaf, said she enjoyed the movie so much more than other movies because of the detail that allowed her to experience in her head what I heard on the screen (referring to the sounds of unseen things that we, the hearing, take for granted.) She further commented that if those sounds had not been subtitle, she would have just been reading dialogue.
Aussie Chris:
--- Quote from: Daphne7661 on August 03, 2006, 01:25:30 pm ---I'm not really sure why, but I feel as though my explanation of why Jack would be the one saying "I'm Sorry" in TS2, is not getting its full credit. It seems as though everyone is so busy trying to prove who said it, that they are closing their minds as to why (I believe) it was said in the first place.
--- End quote ---
Um, ok , your logic for Jack saying sorry is fine, although I thought I was quoting the others in the room who made this point. This topic is a veritable mind field of passions and perceptions don't you think? Everyone can have slightly different ideas of what the characters are doing and saying, and the mind fills in the rest. I guess that because the c'mere / sorry / s'alright debate has been going on for so long that it didn't occur to me to qualify the quote with an acknowledgement of this. So this is me saying sorry! ;)
Like Katherine, I tend to be open to all possibilities without necessarily convinced of any of them. When I listen to this scene I can hear where the c'mere, sorry, and s'alright's are, but I tend towards the conclusion that the c'mere sound is not really c'mere, but the sound that occurs when one opens their mouth in preparation to speak. But that doesn't mean that it isn't c'mere. As for who say sorry, assuming it is sorry, well who knows? It could be argued that either of them say it for different reasons.
So credit where credit is due Daphne, for what it's worth. 8)
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: dly64 on August 03, 2006, 02:50:36 pm ---Mark this moment ... it may be the only time that we are all in 100% agreement! ;D
--- End quote ---
Uh-oh! I hate to spoil the sisterhood, but when I said "this method would be fine by me" I actually meant Heath's method. (Damn, I knew I should have gone back and phrased that differently.) (And not that I wouldn't be pretty happy with whatever Jake's method is.)
Well, at least the rest of you can celebrate your mutual agreement. And Diane, sooner or later you and I will agree on something ...
(Just kidding. I think we already do! ;))
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: [email protected] on August 03, 2006, 06:19:38 pm ---I find it hard to believe they would alter the actual spoken word. ... I truly trust these subtitles.
--- End quote ---
I haven't watched the subtitles, but it sounds like whoever did the work was very conscientious and thorough. I don't think they would have willfully misrepresented anything, and apparently they rarely got careless.
My distrust would lie only in the fact that, when it comes to some of those nearly indiscernible sounds, the subtitlers are as fallible as we are. I wouldn't be surprised if there are people on this board who have watched the movie more, and given it closer attention, than the subtitlers did. And yet even then, look at all the disagreement!
The subtitlers probably had access to a screenplay and maybe additional materials, but it seems quite possible that the dialogue we are talking about here, if it occurred, was improvised on the set and never put in writing. (If it were in the screenplay, seems like it would have been uttered more clearly.) Therefore, the subtitlers would have had to rely on their eyes and ears, same as we do. And they may have been scrupulous, but they weren't superhuman.
By the way, 2robots4you, has your police-analyst friend had a chance to check it out?
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