Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Report your use of Brokieisms in so-called "real life"
x-man:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on September 29, 2013, 07:02:02 pm ---Be prepared for a wh-o-o-o-le lot of argument about that! :laugh:
--- End quote ---
I am very surprised to learn that some people are uncertain about how Jack died. My belief that he was murdered is based om the following:
1. As many of you have said, lines and scenes are there for a purpose. Each adds something new and must be taken seriously, especially in the light of Proulx's writing style.
2. The murder flashback scene happens when Ennis is on the phone with Laureen, and Ennis is unsure "which way it was, the tire iron or a real accident." But, when Ennis learns from Jack's father about Randall, he concludes that Jack and Randall had been found out, just as Rich and Earl had been, and "So now he knew it had to be the tire iron." Not that "he believed" it, or that "he thought" it, or any other uncertain verb, "he KNEW it." How much clearer could Proulx make it? We cannot ask for an autopsy of Jack's body; we have to take Proulx's word for it.
Each of us has drawn definitive conclusions from lines/scenes in the story and movie based on far more subtle wordings than "he knew." I know that what I have said is NOT news to anyone in BetterMost. Where have I gone wrong? What am I missing? Until I know that, in the words of Martin Luther (not my favourite person) "Here I stand, I can do no other." LOL
Penthesilea:
About the phrase "he knew it":
Put the emphasis on the other word
not "he KNEW it",
but "HE knew it".
Ennis "knew". For Ennis it was clear as day, he was certain. But this certainty is inside Ennis' head, it's not an absolute.
And even for Ennis, this certainty was only in that moment. Later on, "there was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe".
I'm gonna look for an old thread where we discussed the question how Jack died and link it for you. It used to be an often and passionately discussed topic around here. O0
Penthesilea:
Here you go, x-man
http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,16166.0.html
Here's the poll we had about the question, from Jan. 2008:
Do you think Jack was murdered or was it an accident as Lureen described it to Ennis?
I'm sure it was murder: 13 (17.8%)
I tend to think it was murder, but can't say for sure: 14 (19.2%)
I just don't know: 1 (1.4%)
I think it was an accident, but can't say for sure: 4 (5.5%)
I'm sure it was an accident: 10 (13.7%)
My opinion on this question changes: 7 (9.6%)
We are not supposed to know: 24 (32.9%)
Other (please explain): 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 54
x-man:
Thank you for this very much. When I wrote "What I have said is NOT news..." I just knew that somewhere there was a thread, topic site, etc., devoted to the subject (since there had been for the Wooden Horse, a previous preoccupation of mine). This is a curse and a blessing to someone relatively knew to BetterMost like me: On the one hand, old hands here kindly point me to sources of new information, like Pentesilea has done here. On the other hand, I risk creating a big yawn amongst old-timers who would say "Oh not that old thing again." Of you old-timers I ask patience. There must be newcomers drifting into town all the time. We all appreciate finding access to the results of work and thought by people who have been here before. Thanks again to all of you.
Sason:
X-man, I seem to remember an interview with Annie Proulx I read somewhere, where she says that we're actually not supposed to know for sure how Jack died. She meant for it to be ambiguous like that.
That's only one of all the ambiguities built into this story and movie.
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