Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Got What They Deserved?
Jeff Wrangler:
Tell you what, it was the "shared and sexless" hunger phrase that was in the back of my mind when I wrote earlier. Thanks, silkncense--I wouldn't have trusted myself to quote the sentence without the text in front of me.
It seems to me that this is absolutely key to what Jack wants from Ennis, and it always makes me sad when I read it. Apparently, according to Miss Annie, the sex remained really, really good all the years of Ennis and Jack's relationship, but this phrase really shows that what Jack (the little boy who never felt love and acceptance from his father) really wants is Ennis's love.
It makes me sad to read that phrase because it calls to my mind the many, many gay men I have known who try to use sex as a substitute for love (I presume straight people do this, too, but I write from my own cultural perspective). I'm not saying this is what is going on between Ennis and Jack, only that the "shared and sexless hunger" phrase reminds me of what I have seen in my own life.
[Edit: Just fixed one of my own embarrassing typos. ::) ]
welliwont:
--- Quote from: dly64 on June 26, 2006, 08:45:27 am ---Guess what? I disagree. Not that we will come to any concensus on this issue, but it is fun to debate it anyway.
I still think that Ennis could not admit to himself that he loved Jack. He did love Jack, but there is a difference between embracing that love and being in denial. Ennis did not see himself as homosexual. He blames Jack for that. He cannot admit that he is truly gay. I think the short story, the screenplay and the film are all in agreement with that. Ennis was homophobic, period. Even after their four year reunion, he describes his intensity of his feelings for Jack as "this thing". He still cannot face his authentic self, IMO.
--- End quote ---
Ok I am at work too, and I have about three mins to post this, and I find this is the deepest, most thought-provoking interesting facinating etc etc thread I have ever partooken (I am still working on my vitriolic response to Katherine's rebuttal to me of three days ago! ::) ;D)....
Anyway, in spite of not having properly processed all the brilliant observations here, I would like to interjet one objection:
When Ennis says to Jack "Do you ever get the feeling that people *know*?" Is that not an admission of sorts that Ennis knows that he is gay?? hunh???
gotta go,
J
dly64:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on June 26, 2006, 12:59:58 pm ---Tell you what, it was the "shared and sexless" hunger phrase that was in the back of my mind when I wrote earlier. Thanks, silkncense--I wouldn't have trusted myself to quote the sentence without the text in front of me.
It seems to me that this is absolutely key to what Jack wants from Ennis, and it always makes me sad when I read it. Apparently, according to Miss Annie, the sex remained really, really good all the years of Ennis and Jack's relationship, but this phrase really shows that what Jack (the little boy who never felt love and acceptance from his father) really wants is Ennis's love.
It makes me said to read that phrase because it calls to my mind the many, many gay men I have known who try to use sex as a substitute for love (I presume straight people do this, too, but I write from my own cultural perspective). I'm not saying this is what is going on between Ennis and Jack, only that the "shared and sexless hunger" phrase reminds me of what I have seen in my own life.
--- End quote ---
I agree with both of you, silkncense and Jack_Wrangler. That's why that "dozy embrace" scene is so necessary. Too many Brokies are taking the "Ennis can't face Jack..." thing too literally. I know I am being repetitive here .... but I think it is worth stressing. The sex was always great between Jack and Ennis ... but Jack's need for love. comfort and warmth was experienced in that moment (even with the knowledge that Ennis could not admit his love for Jack).
By the way, Jack_Wrangler ... you are right that straights can look for love in all the wrong places. I know when I was younger, I used sex as a substitute for love. That way, I didn't have to face my own insecurities. The sad thing was that I really did crave deep and meaningful love, but I would not allow any man to get too close. I am still single ... still have the same issue with not letting a man "get into my psyche". Too scared of rejection, I guess. Hmmmm ... what does this say about me? :o
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on June 26, 2006, 09:27:24 am ---I'll even allow that you may be right that it wasn't wise for her to put this passage in the narrative where she put it, in the context of Jack's reminisence, though that was her decision to make.
--- End quote ---
Of course it was. Just like everything written by every writer -- from the brilliant to the schlocky -- is his or her decision to make. Doesn't make it a good decision, necessarily.
--- Quote ---"You shut up about Annie. This ain't her fault"--if people conflate her story and the movie and can't see the differences. ;)
--- End quote ---
You are absolutely right. That aint her fault. My complaint in this case is about people who analyze the movie on the basis of the book, when they are two different works. Annie cannot be blamed for this, but it makes the situation all the more frustrating for me. I can't tell you how many times I have seen people invoke that sentence to explain Movie Ennis' attitude, even though it is obviously inapplicable.
--- Quote ---And just out of curiosity, do you also consider it a mistake that she doesn't mention Jack's drive to Wyoming following Ennis's divorce except in the context of Ennis's phone call to Lureen--and never elaborates on why that drive was for nothing?
--- End quote ---
I don't think so. I didn't remember that part of the story -- maybe even failed to notice it, in fact, so it didn't have a chance to stump me -- until after seeing the movie, by which time the explanation seemed clear.. But as a rule I don't consider it a mistake if an author just omits information, deliberately leaving something ambiguous or mysterious. Making readers think is part of literature's job.
What bothers me about the embrace thing -- and it bothered me when I first read the story, before seeing the movie -- is that it seems not to enhance anything but rather contradicts Annie's own purposes. After all, by her own words Ennis also prefers to "embrace" ALMA from behind, as if not wanting to remember it's a woman he's with! And she portrays Story Ennis as otherwise not particularly homophobic, except for that one anomalous detail. I felt as if she threw that in because it was a catchy way to describe a man ambivalently involved in a gay relationship, without regard to the contradiction and larger implications for her character.
Anyway, this is a minor issue, but it illuminates a major one that, as I have said before, divides Brokies. What did Ennis know and when did he know it? What did he realize at the end? I disagree with most of the past several posters about this, and as it seems an unresolvable controversy I'm sure you will all disagree with me. But here's my opinion:
Ennis loves Jack throughout the movie. And he knows he does -- he may not use the word "love" to describe "this thing," but he knows his feelings for Jack are so intense he barely trusts himself to be around Jack in public because they might grab hold of him at any time. That's why he mopes while Jack breaks camp on Brokeback, why he cries in the alley, why he pines for Jack for four years, why he gets all excited about the postcard, why he dresses in his best shirt and sits with his nose pressed against the window for the reunion, why he is overjoyed when he sees Jack, why he sends up a prayer of thanks, why he continues to see him for 16 more years despite all the risks and fears and shame entailed, why he always looks thrilled whenever he sets eyes on Jack, why he breaks up with Cassie, why he looks miserable in the bus station ... and on and on and on. People who don't know or want to deny that they are in love feign disinterest in the object of their love, they don't behave like that.
I also think he knows from the beginning that he is gay, though he is doing his damnedest to repress it. He believes what he's been taught -- that it's immoral and disgusting and so on. Yet he gradually comes to some recognition of it, as evidenced by the "people know" scene (Update: Jane, I just saw your post, and that is exactly what I think!). The stress of coping with these contradictory emotions is part of what prompts his breakdown at the lake. But it's also because he knows that he can't stand it no more -- loving Jack but not being able to live with him -- yet has no idea how to fix it.
And what he finally, finally realizes at the end is that he should have made his love for Jack his first priority, that it should have outweighed all other considerations -- fear, shame, following rules -- that he should have fixed the situation rather than stood it. Hence his question to Alma, "this Kurt, he loves you?" He has realized that love is what's most important.
ednbarby:
--- Quote from: dly64 on June 26, 2006, 01:32:49 pm ---By the way, Jack_Wrangler ... you are right that straights can look for love in all the wrong places. I know when I was younger, I used sex as a substitute for love. That way, I didn't have to face my own insecurities. The sad thing was that I really did crave deep and meaningful love, but I would not allow any man to get too close. I am still single ... still have the same issue with not letting a man "get into my psyche". Too scared of rejection, I guess. Hmmmm ... what does this say about me? :o
--- End quote ---
Been there, used that too. And as much as my husband is the only one I've let into my psyche as much as he is, there is still stuff I don't give him access to, either. It's actually a constant underlying issue with us that this movie has helped bring, rather painfully at times, to the surface.
"Oh, please. You are *such* an 'Ennis.'" ~ Ed Y., 4/07/06
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