Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
You shut up about Ennis - this ain't (all) his fault
ednbarby:
--- Quote from: JennyC on June 27, 2006, 06:29:44 pm ---I agree Barb's explanation probably applies to some people, but I don't think I am one of them. I can’t say that I have experienced abandonment in my life. I love both Jack and Ennis and can see myself being Jack or Ennis in different situations, but I have to say that I care for Ennis more. I am struggling to understand why the movie has such an impact on me and why particularly Ennis made my heartache.
--- End quote ---
My explanation was just a shot in the dark, really. What makes any of us feel more drawn to some people than to others? There are kind of universally attractive and universally repellent people, but when you have two people (or characters, ah, but we know they are real people...) who are on the same plane of physical attractiveness and who each has more than his share of endearing (as well as aggravating) personality traits, why does one engage one's sympathies more than the other? Not to try to be flippant, but maybe there is no reason for matters of the heart - maybe they just are.
ruthlesslyunsentimental:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on June 27, 2006, 07:55:47 pm ---
Ruthlessly, how do you see Ennis explaining his feelings to himself? As Mikaela put it yesterday, Ennis would have to be sleepwalking not to notice that what he feels Jack approximates love, even if he calls it "this thing" instead of that actual word. That's exactly how I see it -- if his feelings are that obvious to viewers, if his behavior shouts "love" at every turn, how could he fail to recognize that himself? But my understanding from your post is that you don't think Ennis admits to himself that he loved Jack until the end, because doing so would force him to consider the possibility that he is "queer." Right?
--- End quote ---
Yes. That is one of the points of what I wrote. It all goes back to "I ain't queer." This is a fear-based statement -- especially in light of what we later learn Ennis' father did to him. Ennis' fear is, to put it into a very small nutshell, the entire theme of the movie. It all started with him encountering that bear -- his fears -- and getting spooked off his horse -- off of himself -- meeting up with a few more bears (Alma, the bikers, etc.) and culminating in the final bear, Old Man Twist. (Actually, there is one more after OMT.) In the original bear scene, Ennis ran off scared trying to scramble together what he could for Jack; in the Old Man Twist bear scene, Ennis climbed Old Brokeback Mountain (the stairs) to find Jack once again (the shirts) and Ennis conquered this bear (OMT, Ennis' fears) by defiantly walking past him, determinedly holding Jack (the shirts), sort of in public.
Throughout the whole movie, Ennis ain't queer. At least not in his mind. It's just a thing that grabs hold of him. I find this wholly real-world based on two notions: 1) People who are fear-based are often in denial -- often to the point of complete and utter disassociation from the reality of the object of the great fear (here, his homosexuality); and, 2) Sadly, there are far too many people who do not recognize love even when it's right under their own noses. Ennis displayed loving behaviors, gestures, and words to Jack -- all throughout the movie. WE see that. WE know it. And Jack recognized it as such (though even he had his (understandable) misgivings about it). But not Ennis. He would always want to please Jack. He would always want to say cute things to him. But even though he knew what they were doing was "forbidden," he thought of it as "this thing," not as love. To Ennis, what his father showed him was two men who had shacked up together and got punished for it -- not two men who were in love. The former would be easier for a nine-year old Ennis to understand and process; the latter, not so much so -- a nine-year old boy would ask himself "Why couldn't they love each other?"
This is why Ennis' anger at Jack in the final lake scene is not about jealousy. It's about fear. That's his controlling emotion. It's not that Ennis was jealous of Jack being with another man. It was that Ennis was mad as hell at Jack that he broke their one-shot pact, their "I ain't queer" pact. Because by breaking it, Jack said "I'm queer." And that would make Ennis queer. And his fears would not allow him to accept that reality.
welliwont:
--- Quote from: ruthlesslyunsentimental on June 27, 2006, 06:14:20 pm ---
Really, I am open to suggestions. :-\
--- End quote ---
How about "It wasn't all Ennis' fault after all" :D ;)
J
PS: Ruthie, did you get to see the alternate scene of Ennis Crying, or what? I thought you might be interested since your OP addressed the finding the shirts scene... I am interested in hearing what you thought of it if you did see it! ??? :)
Jane
welliwont:
Ok, instead of finding in this thread and quoting the passages where this was mentioned, (never enough time, never enough) I would just like to throw this out there: after the punch, after they leave their campsite, after they go up to the sheep, with the mules and all their equipment, and gather the sheep, and get the sheep (the whole thousand a them!) down the mountain, and back to the jump-off spot, a lot of time must have passed. As in, could they really have done all that in one day? Did they perhaps have to overnight it somewhere, either with the sheep up on Brokeback, or ??
If they did take more than one day to accomplish all that, do you think that they just stopped speaking to each other until they parted by the truck, or ??
ruthlesslyunsentimental:
--- Quote from: JakeTwist on June 27, 2006, 08:46:07 pm ---How about "It wasn't all Ennis' fault after all" :D ;)
J
PS: Ruthie, did you get to see the alternate scene of Ennis Crying, or what? I thought you might be interested since your OP addressed the finding the shirts scene... I am interested in hearing what you thought of it if you did see it! ??? :)
Jane
--- End quote ---
First, EXCELLENT new name for the thread. I think I'll go with it. I mean it's got "Ennis" (which has been suggested) and it builds intrigue ("fault") and it sounds so groundbreaking and authoritative ("after all"). (Not that I believe my post is either groundbreaking or authoritative, but it sounds good, huh?)
Second, one thing you should know about me... oh, boy! Here I go! ... I am probably in a minority when I say that I am totally against any extra scenes ever being shown or put on a "special edition" DVD. To me, the film, as it has been presented to us, is a pristine and complete product. I feel that any extras would only bastardize that.
Great big BUT time...
BUT... when I heard the description of the extra few seconds of footage of the shirt scene, it sounded way too good to pass up. And, the description I heard of it sounded as if it would completely fit the film as presented without adding something unnecessary or extraneous. So, hypocrite that I am, I watched it. And I LOVED it! Those few extra seconds gave me a sort of closure for that scene that I had never before experienced. Yes, I know... those extra few seconds did change something for me. Not the film, though -- it changed my experience of the film... in a way that I needed.
I have only one other example of something I’ve seen that was extra that didn't "ruin" the film for me. There's a promo picture (or something like that) floating around that shows Jack and Ennis in the sunlight at the final lake scene, hugging. (I assume it was the final lake scene because of the clothes and equipment.) The fact that Ennis didn’t verbally respond to "Sometimes I miss you so much..." always bugged me. And then it really depressed me that the next shot shows them sleeping in the tent, clothed, with Ennis simply hanging his arm over Jack from behind. I really wanted SOME concrete show of affection between them that would have occurred during their final trip together -- they seemed sooooo distant from each other. That picture gave me what I needed. So, hypocrite that I am...
--- Quote ---Ok, instead of finding in this thread and quoting the passages where this was mentioned, (never enough time, never enough) I would just like to throw this out there: after the punch, after they leave their campsite, after they go up to the sheep, with the mules and all their equipment, and gather the sheep, and get the sheep (the whole thousand a them!) down the mountain, and back to the jump-off spot, a lot of time must have passed. As in, could they really have done all that in one day? Did they perhaps have to overnight it somewhere, either with the sheep up on Brokeback, or ??
If they did take more than one day to accomplish all that, do you think that they just stopped speaking to each other until they parted by the truck, or ??
--- End quote ---
I've thought about this a lot. It does seem logistically improbable that they themselves got all of that accomplished in one day. But, then again, we see Ennis ride into camp. Presumably it's his morning return. And Aguirre had already been by and Jack had already started dismantling everything. And then, the scene with Aguirre and the sheep count... that could have been late afternoon. And the scene at the truck could have been mid-to late evening. It's the middle of August so these scenes could be as early as say 7:00 a.m. until 8 p.m. -- 13 hours, let's say. I dunno. It's possible... but still...
And then, of course, Jack and Ennis had to take some time to change shirts and Jack had to find a time to steal Ennis' shirt... I dunno.
Also, if it did take more than a day and they had to camp somewhere for a night, that would certainly beg for us to believe that they had to have had time to talk. Similarly, if it was all crammed into a 13-hour period, that would explain their NOT having had time to talk. I still dunno.
I will say, though, that the way they act at the truck seems more to me as if they had worked all day and gotten it all done in one day rather than them spending a wordless night together.
All I know is that if I think about it too much I'll start to feel like a rabbit tryin' to squeeze into a snake hole with a coyote on its tail.
Finally, to everyone... Is JakeTwist's thread title OK with everyone? And just HOW do I change the thread title? And, how do I insert a link to a thread into a post?
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