Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Why Jack Quit Ennis
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on July 13, 2006, 01:02:53 pm ---What evidence do we have that Randall wanted anything more from Jack than a couple of lakeside fucks one or twice a year?
--- End quote ---
Not even high-altitude in their case, hunh?
I am willing to believe Randall cared about Jack on a deeper level than that. But it's kind of moot and speculative anyway, isn't it, since it never came to pass?
Jack either brought up the ranching idea with Randall and got an encouraging response of some sort, or knows Randall well enough to consider it viable, or pins his hopes on it even though as with Ennis it's at best a remote possibility. Randall -- though obviously more comfortable with his sexuality than Ennis -- might be hesitatant for similar reasons, or reluctant to leave LaShawn, or afraid of losing his kids. Or he's all for it.
In any case, Jack mentions the plan to the folks. Even the mention might have been casual and iffy.
So would the idea have come to pass if Jack had lived? No way of knowing.
serious crayons:
I'm sorry to go way OT here for a minute, but I feel terrible about something and this seems like the best place to address it.
Somebody just PMed me and said they were offended when in my previous post I said,
--- Quote ---When I encounter that response, I often sort of roll my eyes and think that if I apply my searing logic they'll change their minds.
--- End quote ---
The person asked if I was joking. And in fact, I was. Sometimes I get into discussions that begin to feel like debates. Actually, I enjoy them. So in this particular case, I was making fun of myself, being facetious. Of course you can't apply searing logic to every aspect of a movie with huge emotional impact. That's what I was trying to say. Ironically, it sounds like the PMer read that it just the opposite way, and looking back I guess I can see how that's possible.
So anyway, if this were only a disagreement about one line or with one person, it could easily be cleared up. To start with, I would rush to change the line or the whole post. I'm mortified to think that anybody would misinterpret and be offended by it. (I am tempted to delete the whole thing, but I'm leaving it up so people will know what I'm referring to.) To anyone else who was hurt or offended by that line or anything else in that post, I really, really apologize.
But I want to say more, because the person also said s/he has resented my attitude on other posts, and that others have complained about it, too. The PM was quite strongly stated, including using the word "arrogant" three times. S/he said this has created an unpleasant environment, not entirely because of me but at least partly. S/he said s/he feels like s/he's being "run off the threads." Meanwhile, Phillip has written a very nice diplomatic post elsewhere on this forum about this same issue.
I like debating things and sometimes I probably come on too strong (that's the attitude of mine I was making fun of above). I really don't think I'm the only one who likes to debate; many of us here often pose pretty formidable opinions. Personally, I don't mind that; in fact I think it's fun. I assumed it was fun for others, too. Not for everybody, I see now.
I really, really like everyone here. So I can't begin to tell you how bad I feel about the news that others have been angered or offended. I don't want anyone here ever to feel bad, let alone bad enough to leave. I was upset when four people left yesterday, because I like all of those people and will miss them. it's dismaying to think that people get unhappy enough to make a dramatic exit (though in that case, the issues appear to have been very different).
So I'm really sorry to hijack your thread, Ruthlessly. I apologize to you and to everyone else. I figure most of the people I talk to most will be likely to read this sooner or later, so goes to all of you. I'm going to try to be much more careful from now on.
:'(
If anybody has any response to the above, one way or another, please PM me rather than post it here so I won't have to feel any guiltier than I already do about going so OT. Now everybody get back to discussing -- in a nice way! -- why Jack quit Ennis.
ruthlesslyunsentimental:
--- Quote from: ednbarby on July 13, 2006, 10:21:19 am ---Still, I think that if Jack had set up house with Randall and a while later (doesn't really matter how long) Ennis came and begged him to take him back, promising to live with him like Randall was, the answer would still have been no. And Ennis' doing that would devastate Jack. But it is not in his nature to reneg on a promise, and I believe he would have come to love Randall, just in a different way. Of course he'd never stop loving Ennis.
--- End quote ---
I agree 100%.
ruthlesslyunsentimental:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on July 13, 2006, 01:02:53 pm ---...we don't have anything more than assumptions to go on with Randall.
--- End quote ---
The only things we "know for sure" are that Randall came on to Jack, Jack may have been having his time with Randall (we all agree, I think, that it's NOT LaShawn... but, the fact that Jack lied about an affair with LaShawn... could he also be lying about having any affair at all? Maybe Jack wasn't sleeping with either?), and Jack did mention bringing up another guy (to me, it's clear that it's Randall, but who knows?).
--- Quote ---I've also assumed that Jack died before he had time to try to bring about moving up to his folks' ranch with Randall--and I really don't see any reason to change my own assumption on this point, despite John Twist's snide remark that this was another of Jack's plans that didn't come to pass. But that still begs the point: What evidence do we have that Randall wanted anything more from Jack than a couple of lakeside fucks one or twice a year?
--- End quote ---
I agree with all of this. And your question about what Randall himself wanted out of whatever relationship he may have had with Jack, and your question about whether Jack was just pie-in-the-sky'ing it... -- both great questions!
--- Quote ---Poor Jack. He deserved so much better than he got out of life. :(
--- End quote ---
Who could disagree? They'd have to be a dumbass mule...
ruthlesslyunsentimental:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on July 13, 2006, 01:23:10 pm ---Randall -- though obviously more comfortable with his sexuality than Ennis --
--- End quote ---
Ya think? :laugh:
Everything else you said in this post is spot on, imho.
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