Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum

TOTW 04/09: Ennis, Jack, and Fatherhood

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tampatalon:
Hey all, I noticed that on the original Father's Day Banner that had Bobby and Jack
on the combine that the name of the combine was "Versitile" across the front. Maybe
the was a sublimital message that Jack was versitile and a good father dispite all the
"hats" he had to wear in his lijfe?

TampaTalon^">

mariez:
Those are some great questions, Laura.  I've enjoyed reading all the responses.  I think this question, in particular, is interesting, and I haven't heard it discussed very often:

Did having children help them in any way?

I think Ennis felt a sense of abandonment when his parents died when he was still young (what does he tell Jack in the bar that first day - "no room for me") and having his own family helped to fill that void, so in that sense I do think having children helped him.  In the final lake scene, when he mentions that he's "nothing and nowhere" I think the fact that he no longer has "his family" is a big part of why he feels that he is "nothing."  It's unclear if having Bobby helped Jack in any way.  As Monika and Amanda noted, there are significant differences in the ss and movie.  In addition to telling Ennis he never wanted children, it always stood out to me in the ss that Jack tells Ennis that there was "no way to get it right" with his father and on their last trip, he tells Ennis that he's worried about Bobby "who was, no doubt about it, dyslexic or something, couldn’t get anything right...."  I never thought it was just by chance that he desribes both himself and Bobby as not getting things right.  It seems that Jack believes that Bobby's problems are a reflection of what he sees as his own failures - which I think is common for an adult who was abused as a child.  In that sense, I don't think having a child helped Jack. 


--- Quote from: atz75 on June 22, 2009, 04:19:52 pm ---And, it's not entirely clear in the film how long Ennis goes without seeing his children (as indicated in the story) when they're older. 
--- End quote ---

Yes, in the ss, we're told that after the ugly Thanksgiving scene "He didn’t try to see his girls for a long time, figuring they would look him up when they got the sense and years to move out from Alma."  But we know that he didn't wait until they'd move away from Alma b/c during their last trip he mentions that "he saw his girls about once a month, Alma Jr. a shy seventeen-year-old with his beanpole length, Francine a little live wire."  Something brought about his decision to see them again sooner than he'd planned, and I suppose it could be as simple as the fact that he was lonely and missed his girls, his "family."

ifyoucantfixit:
    i always got the idea that he was not around a lot.  Going to lonesome old ranches, and out of the way round ups.  (Down
around the Tetons.)  It seems like she hadn't really seen him in about two years.  He asked about "Is Troy still playin baseball?" 
She said "I dont know what hes doing, I am seeing Kurt now."  Ennis wanted to know' how long she had been seein this Kurt for?"  "She said "About a year now."  So it seemed in the movie he still was not very involved in the day to day lives of the girls.
    Jack on the otherhand, was probably there most of the time.  "But more or less drunk the largest part of the time."
    They were neither one what you would call physically or mentally abusive.  But on the other hand, not too connected either.

Katie77:

--- Quote from: sopylicious on June 22, 2009, 09:53:18 am ---
 Very interesting subject and questions. Thank you very much. The first thing that comes to my mind when I am thinking of Ennis, Jack and fatherhood is honesty. How were they able to communicate with there children, would they be honest and straight forward towards the kids?

--- End quote ---

I doubt it very much, lets face it, they were not honest or open with themselves or each other, so the chances are they would not be or could not be with their children.

Children of the fifties and sixties were treated differently by their parents than they are today. We were only told what we needed to know, and whatever our parents told us, we took as the truth, and we did not have the means to find out if it were true or not. Some of us didnt have a television, and we certainly did not have computers, so we had no resource to question what they were telling us, or what they were not telling us.

Katie77:
On today's standards, they definately would not be considered good fathers. Today, fathers are more "hands on", whereas back then in the sixties, fathers were the breadwinners, while the mother tended the house and the children. It wasn't neglect on the fathers part, it was just not his job. When we see Ennis with the two crying babies, he looks awkward, and really does not know what to do, so passes them on to Alma. Thats not to say fathers of that era did not love their children, it was just not their responsibility to do much more than go to work to earn an income to support them.

Once Ennis and Alma divorced, that responsiblity did not change as far as Ennis was concerned. There would rarely have been an occassion back then when the children would have lived with the father and not the mother, because that was the role of parents then. Alma going to work in the store would probably only have come about because of the seasonal work Ennis did, it would have been quite odd in those times for a man to be home looking after the kids while his wife was out working, but as we see, when he did get work, it took precendence over Almas job.

Jack seemed to be a more hands on father than Ennis was. In some ways, Laureen was the stronger and more professionally employed than Jack was. Maybe thats how he was made to feel in the fathers company, and thats the role he took on. But Jack makes it very clear, that he would have walked away from his wife and son in an instant, if Ennis would have gone with him.

It seems that every time Ennis got holidays or a break from his job, he would go away with Jack. It would be unlikely that he ever took Alma and the kids on a holiday, or even just spent the time at home with them. To just up and go away "fishing" was a pretty selfish act, but not that uncommon for fathers of that era. It was mans business, no place for wives and kids anyway if a man wanted to go away with his mates on a fishing trip or something similar.

For the time, Ennis and Jack were probably not much different to most of the other kids fathers, except of course that they were not really going "fishing". What they did, the time they spent with their kids would have been acceptable, and no one would question their qualities of being a good or bad father.

The fact that Ennis did stay in the kids lives after the divorce, was probably the greatest compliment to his fatherly committment. A lot of fathers back then, just went away and started a new life, but Ennis stayed nearby, and it was partly his need to stay near them, that he didn't go off to live in Texas near Jack. He could have, and a lot of men would have, but he didn't. It is irrelevant if he saw them once every two weeks or once every two months, he was still close by and he still had a relationship with them, that definately makes him a good father.

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