Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Love vs. Lust (split off from Things that make you go 'hunh?')
Jeff Wrangler:
This topic was split off from the 5/09 TOTW, because it became a substantial discussion that deserves its own space.
–LauraGigs
--- Quote from: mariez on July 29, 2009, 01:46:25 pm ---Excellent point about Ennis having his eyes closed, Jeff - if his eyes are closed than it's not really "face to face" and all the symbolism that entails.
--- End quote ---
Yes, exactly. If Ennis has his eyes closed while he's making love with Jack, it's like he's not really acknowledging that it's Jack he's making love with, just as the story says that at the time of the dozy embrace, he couldn't really acknowledge that it was Jack he held.
LauraGigs:
You know, I've always had a problem with that line in the SS. How can you make love with a man all summer — with his strong limbs, firm hairy chest, whiskers and man-smell — and still stay in some kind of denial about doing so?
"Ennis woke in red dawn with his pants around his knees, a top-grade headache, and Jack butted against him; without saying anything about it both knew how it would go for the rest of the summer, sheep be damned.
As it did go. They never talked about the sex, let it happen, at first only in the tent at night, then in the full daylight with the hot sun striking down, and at evening in the fire glow, quick, rough, laughing and snorting, no lack of noises..."
Then:
"Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face because he did not want to see nor feel that it was Jack he held."
I mean, wtf?
Kerry:
--- Quote from: LauraGigs on July 31, 2009, 07:45:38 pm ---
You know, I've always had a problem with that line in the SS. How can you make love with a man all summer — with his strong limbs, firm hairy chest, whiskers and man-smell — and still stay in some kind of denial about doing so?
--- End quote ---
I met a guy back in 1995. We hit it off right away. Alas, he lives a straight lifestyle in a small country town up the coast, a seven-hour drive away from where I live in Sydney. In order for us to see each other, I have to make that long drive (sound familiar?). He rarely visits the city because he doesn't like the city, thinks the air is dirty (it is) and all the drivers are crazy (they are). He visited me just a couple of weeks ago. It was great seeing him, particularly because the last time we saw each other was 12 months previously. Even though he is now slightly more animated and contributory sexually than he was back in 1995 (when he'd just lie there and let me do all the work - not that I'm complaining!), he still, to this day, never talks about our sexual experience, nor concede that we've been doing "it" for over 14 years now. He is very Ennis-like in so many ways.
Some people seem to have no problem compartmentalizing their experiences and emotions. I would venture to say that many gay men have had sex with a man at some time in their lives who did not look at them, did not touch them, and kept their head turned away during the entire proceedings. Such men seem to think that if they don't actually touch the man who's pleasuring them (i.e., giving them a BJ), they haven't really had sex with a man. It wouldn't work for me - horses for courses, I guess.
serious crayons:
Thank you for that explanation, Kerry. I've always had trouble with that line, too. I've thought of it as practically a "mistake" in the story. But with your help, it now makes more sense.
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: LauraGigs on July 31, 2009, 07:45:38 pm ---You know, I've always had a problem with that line in the SS. How can you make love with a man all summer — with his strong limbs, firm hairy chest, whiskers and man-smell — and still stay in some kind of denial about doing so?
"Ennis woke in red dawn with his pants around his knees, a top-grade headache, and Jack butted against him; without saying anything about it both knew how it would go for the rest of the summer, sheep be damned.
As it did go. They never talked about the sex, let it happen, at first only in the tent at night, then in the full daylight with the hot sun striking down, and at evening in the fire glow, quick, rough, laughing and snorting, no lack of noises..."
Then:
"Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face because he did not want to see nor feel that it was Jack he held."
I mean, wtf?
--- End quote ---
Trust a gay man who came out in his late 20s. It's not nearly as difficult as it seems. I'm never surprised at the human capacity for self-deception and denial. Forgive me if I'm sharing too much, but I was jerking off to gay porn for years before I acknowledged to myself that I'm gay.
Plus, in Ennis' case, I've always understood from the story that he was the "active" partner in their sex. Fucking is something that a man does. It's not making love--which I think is what we see in the second tent scene in the film--it's just fucking. Plus, consider AP's description, all that "laughing and snorting" and so forth. That's not making love. That's just two horny 19-year-olds rutting.
Maybe it's easier for men--gay or straight--to "compartmentalize" a difference between "having sex" and "making love"? Think of straight guys with prostitutes; no one "makes love" to a prostitute. They just "have sex" with them.
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