Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Love vs. Lust (split off from Things that make you go 'hunh?')
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on July 31, 2009, 09:52:07 pm ---Forgive me if I'm sharing too much, but I was jerking off to gay porn for years before I acknowledged to myself that I'm gay.
--- End quote ---
I'll forgive you for sharing, if you forgive me for prying. What was going through your mind? Can you be any more specific about what you thought about your own sexuality? What did you call it, if not gay? I'm sorry, I know it's absolutely none of my business, but now that you've brought it up I do find it interesting.
--- Quote ---Maybe it's easier for men--gay or straight--to "compartmentalize" a difference between "having sex" and "making love"?
--- End quote ---
Yes, I think this is definitely true. I think men have no problem having sex with just about anyone. Whereas women tend (not always, but often) either to feel more emotionally involved in the first place, or to feel that way afterward. Evolutionarily, of course, this makes sense.
Mandy21:
Yes, Jeff, I respect your opinion and the things you've had to say here, but your statement above kind of shocked me. Is there something going on in your life right now that would cause you say such bitter things? It's kind of scary. Did you just break up with someone or something like that? I think more highly of men, both straight and gay, than the way you're describing them to be. I hope you're okay?
LauraGigs:
--- Quote from: Kerry on July 31, 2009, 08:38:59 pm ---I would venture to say that many gay men have had sex with a man at some time in their lives who did not look at them, did not touch them, and kept their head turned away during the entire proceedings.
--- End quote ---
Man. That's really crappy! :(
LauraGigs:
--- Quote ---Plus, in Ennis' case, I've always understood from the story that he was the "active" partner in their sex. Fucking is something that a man does. It's not making love--which I think is what we see in the second tent scene in the film--it's just fucking. Plus, consider AP's description, all that "laughing and snorting" and so forth. That's not making love. That's just two horny 19-year-olds rutting.
--- End quote ---
That doesn't seem bitter to me. I think I understand where you're coming from here, Jeff. I appreciate you and Kerry's candor and all. When I asked "How can you make love with a man all summer..." I didn't necessarily mean all hearts-and-flowers; I basically meant fuck, LOL.
Actually these answers clarify that whole thing for me a great deal! It makes sense: Ennis can rationalize being fuck-buddies with Jack while together on Brokeback because after all, they're alone, horny, etc. No girls around, just a one-shot deal until the job ends and all. But the dozy embrace is something different: "a shared and sexless hunger" wherein Ennis is being more vulnerable even — because it's about affection and comfort, not just getting off.
And of course Jack, though quite sad, coped with their job's sudden end better than Ennis, because he hadn't been denying the core truth of their relationship to himself.
Ellemeno:
Re the strand being discussed -
This is the opposite of a thing that made me go "hunh?" - In the flashback, when Ennis comes up behind Jack and only snuggles his lapel, I think it's very poignant. It's so intimate, but only Jack's coat, and not Jack himself, gets to feel it.
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