Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
The true reason
Aussie Chris:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on August 15, 2006, 10:18:32 am ---I'm kind of grasping for ways to describe this, Chris, because your post makes me wonder if you and I perceive the response to sex scenes differently. I'm not talking about people necessarily responding to it, um ... the way they would to pornography. It's much more about emotions than that.
--- End quote ---
I've been thinking about this myself, I've got a can of elephant repellant here, I'll give the room a good spray. There. Katherine, I don't think we perceive the sex scenes in BBM differently at all. The appeal is primarily emotional, but that in itself has an erotic quality to it and it's juvenile to suggest otherwise. My objection to the expression "emotional erotica/pornography" was because I see it as senonomous to saying "porn for women", and that infers that BBM is for women (and/or gay men). Regardless of where the toungue is placed, I don't like the idea of branding BBM as being anything for any one particular demographic. And as far as I am concerned, using the word pornography or erotica in the artical means that we *are* talking about sex. Putting "emotional" in front of it doesn't change that.
If there are very few straight men among us, that's just their ignorance and fear at work, and as a demographic they need understanding and patience, not condemnation. A straight male colleague of mine at work saw BBM for the first time last weekend, he finally asked to borrow my copy. But I never suggested it. He simply got to know me and became curious because I spoke highly of the quality of the film and of the film making. His verdict? He loved it and was astonished to be drawn into the character of Ennis. But his wife refused to watch it with him! Go figure eh?
I may be a little over the top here (obsessive?) but I think that a contributing factor in sexual inequality and oppression is that we (humans) keep separating the genders and orientations and saying certain attractors are for women or men. Is gay different to being straight? Do men really want different things to women? Physical Sex versus Emotional Fulfillment? Marriage versus Civil Union? We are just as guilty for the ignorance of those that oppress us because we propogate the stereotypes. My best friend who is a female and is loving and accepting of me still says "the kissing is confronting" and feels it necessary to prepare her friends and family before they watch it. Why does that bug me? I don't even know if I really understand it myself. But I'm exploring these emotions here with you to try to find out (in case you missed that fact)...
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Aussie Chris on August 15, 2006, 06:28:39 pm --- My objection to the expression "emotional erotica/pornography" was because I see it as senonomous to saying "porn for women", and that infers that BBM is for women (and/or gay men). Regardless of where the toungue is placed, I don't like the idea of branding BBM as being anything for any one particular demographic. And as far as I am concerned, using the word pornography or erotica in the artical means that we *are* talking about sex. Putting "emotional" in front of it doesn't change that.
--- End quote ---
Well I agree, to some extent, with the stereotype part. But not with the sex part. Chris, really, the article IS all about emotions. Sex, aside from the tongue-in-cheek use of the word pornography, is a non-issue in it. Here, for the record, is the piece:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-daum7jan07,0,3054088.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions
And here's a recap of her main point:
--- Quote ---So how has this art-house film, a "gay movie" whose target audience is ostensibly the small percentage of the population that identifies as homosexual, managed to insinuate itself into the hearts and cocktail-party conversations of so many heteros? It's that 51% of the population known as women, stupid!
... For all their monosyllabism, Jack (Jake Gyllenhaal) and Ennis (Heath Ledger) are fonts of emotion. Sure, they're prone to the usual male-pattern drinking, fighting and marrying women without knowing quite what they're doing, but when it comes to their love for each other, their hearts aren't just on their sleeves, they're pinned to their foreheads.
And guess what? Chicks dig it.
--- End quote ---
You know, first I spent about 10 posts defending the article to Barb, and now I'm in the middle of defending it to you, Chris, and I just reread it again and realize it's not that good. I first read it in January, thought she made an interesting point, one that I personally can identify with, and bookmarked it. But it's not the most profound thing I ever read about the movie. It's probably not worth all the effort I am making on its behalf. However, I still don't disagree with its premise.
As for stereotyping, you're right. It's too bad BBM's demographics are so skewed. (Well, realistically they're always going to be a little skewed, if only because gay people have particular reasons to really appreciate the movie -- and I'm not talking about sexuality here -- that most straight people don't share, at least not on as personal a level.) But it is too bad there aren't more straight men among our number. Or, for that matter, in the theaters where it played. (Maybe more straight men are seeing it in the privacy of their living rooms, but even that is kind of stupid.)
--- Quote --- Is gay different to being straight? Do men really want different things to women? Physical Sex versus Emotional Fulfillment? Marriage versus Civil Union? We are just as guilty for the ignorance of those that oppress us because we propogate the stereotypes.
--- End quote ---
Well, yes, frankly I do think those things are different. I don't think it is bigotry or even stereotyping to recognize that different people have different issues, and sexuality, gender, nationality, religion, race, etc. influence those differences. To ignore those is to ignore part of what makes humans interesting. It's just that we have to accept and try to understand each others' differences, I think.
dly64:
--- Quote from: Aussie Chris on August 15, 2006, 06:28:39 pm ---I may be a little over the top here (obsessive?) but I think that a contributing factor in sexual inequality and oppression is that we (humans) keep separating the genders and orientations and saying certain attractors are for women or men. Is gay different to being straight? Do men really want different things to women? Physical Sex versus Emotional Fulfillment? Marriage versus Civil Union? We are just as guilty for the ignorance of those that oppress us because we propagate the stereotypes. My best friend who is a female and is loving and accepting of me still says "the kissing is confronting" and feels it necessary to prepare her friends and family before they watch it. Why does that bug me? I don't even know if I really understand it myself. But I'm exploring these emotions here with you to try to find out (in case you missed that fact)...
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: latjoreme on August 15, 2006, 07:04:49 pm ---Well, yes, frankly I do think those things are different. I don't think it is bigotry or even stereotyping to recognize that different people have different issues, and sexuality, gender, nationality, religion, race, etc. influence those differences. To ignore those is to ignore part of what makes humans interesting. It's just that we have to accept and try to understand each others' differences, I think.
--- End quote ---
Chris - I have to agree with Katherine on this point. The reality is that we are different. There is certainly some universality in what we long for. However, our life experiences greatly influence how we respond to any given situation.
I was compelled to write a response primarily because of your comment regarding your female friend “preparing” those before they watch the film. I have to admit that I have done that. My reason is that I come from a very Bible belt religious conservative area. Many people (rightly or wrongly) would be offended by what is in the film. So, before we even watch it, I qualify it. I always say that this film is not for everyone, there is a lot of language in the film (which is actually as big of an issue as the sex scenes), there are two kissing scenes and one sex scene between the men and three sex scenes with the women, showing some nudity. I guess I am one who is very sensitive towards the possibility of offending someone. What I don’t want is for someone to watch the film if s/he is uncomfortable. Despite how much I love this film, not everyone can see beyond the fact that this is, indeed, a love story between two men.
silkncense:
--- Quote ---It's about the genuine and truthful depiction of the emotions. Some of these emotions are beautiful and endearing while others are not, and that's good because it's the unflinching honesty that makes it possible to believe in them. If we become aroused it's because we are responding to these emotions
--- End quote ---
Chris - Although I 'borrowed' the term emotional erotica (from Naky) I hope when you read my post that you saw what I meant is exactly what you just expressed:
--- Quote ---But the reunion kiss - that showed a passion that few ever find. The dozy embrace shows an emotional love that transcends many partnerings (is that a word?). And when Ennis collapsed at the lake - he was so emotionally devastated that his body couldn't maintain him.
This does not make this a 'chick flick' to me. I can't imagine anyone not only being drawn to this special feeling but craving it. Knowing that you are missing out if you don't ever have it -
And yet, that all-out, uncontrolled (not uncontrollable), enduring emotional love is not the story or lesson of Brokeback Mountain
--- End quote ---
And I was not referring to a sexual arousal in using that term, but an emotional response far beyond the norm - something that would evoke a physical feeling. A feeling beyond any I have experienced with any other film - emotions so intense that I HAD to find someone who understood it. Thus IMDb, Chez Tremblay & here.
silkncense:
--- Quote ---because I spoke highly of the quality of the film and of the film making. His verdict? He loved it and was astonished to be drawn into the character of Ennis. But his wife
--- End quote ---
Chris - I hope you read my thread titled "Finally" You will find it very similar to the above.
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