Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
getting hit hard by offhand revelations (story discussion)
nakymaton:
--- Quote from: dly64 on September 08, 2006, 11:56:08 am ---As for empathizing …. you all probably know my answer. It would be Jack. I understand him very well. (Scarily well).
--- End quote ---
Story-Jack as well as movie-Jack?
I find story-Jack to be fascinating because we only get hints about what he's like, and what we learn is often contradictory. (Jeff, you're entirely right about story-Jack being the kind of guy who doesn't seem all that trustworthy. But then... the memory of the dozy embrace. The shirts. How do you reconcile those with this guy who, well, reminds me a bit of a used car saleman?)
(Apologies to any highly romantic used car salesmen who happen to be reading this.)
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: nakymaton on September 08, 2006, 12:27:38 pm ---I find story-Jack to be fascinating because we only get hints about what he's like, and what we learn is often contradictory. (Jeff, you're entirely right about story-Jack being the kind of guy who doesn't seem all that trustworthy. But then... the memory of the dozy embrace. The shirts. How do you reconcile those with this guy who, well, reminds me a bit of a used car saleman?)
(Apologies to any highly romantic used car salesmen who happen to be reading this.)
--- End quote ---
Used car salesman?
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I'm sorry. I know this is a serious thread, but that so perfectly encapsulates my reaction to Story Jack! ::) :P ;D
dly64:
--- Quote from: nakymaton on September 08, 2006, 12:27:38 pm ---Story-Jack as well as movie-Jack?
I find story-Jack to be fascinating because we only get hints about what he's like, and what we learn is often contradictory. (Jeff, you're entirely right about story-Jack being the kind of guy who doesn't seem all that trustworthy. But then... the memory of the dozy embrace. The shirts. How do you reconcile those with this guy who, well, reminds me a bit of a used car saleman?)
(Apologies to any highly romantic used car salesmen who happen to be reading this.)
--- End quote ---
Both movie and story Jack. I am not a used car salesperson ... but I am in sales. Hmmmm.... does that mean anything? :-\
I would not say that Jack is not trustworthy. I would say that he is selective about what he reveals. What I mean is that Jack chooses not to tell Ennis anything that might upset him (Ennis). That would include Aguirre’s knowledge of Jack’s and Ennis’ relationship as well as his (Jack’s) having sex with other men. Jack’s indiscretions have little to do with Ennis. In other words, he is not seeking out sex with other men because he wants to replace Ennis. On the contrary … he is using the others to help him get through all of the times he is without Ennis. Ennis is who Jack loves. In that regard, Jack is always loyal to Ennis. Jack separates the emotional from the physical. I have no doubt that had Ennis and Jack lived together, Jack would have been faithful. The problem is that Ennis could not or would not allow himself to have a life with Jack. Jack had sexual needs that were not being met. He was able to get that somewhere else. His relationship with Ennis was more than that. When everything came to a head (at the lake) … the reality wasn’t a shock to Ennis. It was hearing Jack say it/ admit it … that is what was painful. That was one time when Jack said “f**k it! I want you to hurt like I am hurting.” But even after that, Jack could not bear to see Ennis in pain … so he smoothed it over. They both knew the truth, but Jack chose to shield Ennis from it and Ennis accepted being sheltered.
Not sure if this is making much sense … It’s the best way that I can describe it.
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: dly64 on September 08, 2006, 02:03:27 pm ---Both movie and story Jack. I am not a used car salesperson ... but I am in sales. Hmmmm.... does that mean anything? :-\
I would not say that Jack is not trustworthy. I would say that he is selective about what he reveals. What I mean is that Jack chooses not to tell Ennis anything that might upset him (Ennis). That would include Aguirre’s knowledge of Jack’s and Ennis’ relationship as well as his (Jack’s) having sex with other men. Jack’s indiscretions have little to do with Ennis. In other words, he is not seeking out sex with other men because he wants to replace Ennis. On the contrary … he is using the others to help him get through all of the times he is without Ennis. Ennis is who Jack loves. In that regard, Jack is always loyal to Ennis. Jack separates the emotional from the physical. I have no doubt that had Ennis and Jack lived together, Jack would have been faithful. The problem is that Ennis could not or would not allow himself to have a life with Jack. Jack had sexual needs that were not being met. He was able to get that somewhere else. His relationship with Ennis was more than that. When everything came to a head (at the lake) … the reality wasn’t a shock to Ennis. It was hearing Jack say it/ admit it … that is what was painful. That was one time when Jack said “f**k it! I want you to hurt like I am hurting.” But even after that, Jack could not bear to see Ennis in pain … so he smoothed it over. They both knew the truth, but Jack chose to shield Ennis from it and Ennis accepted being sheltered.
Not sure if this is making much sense … It’s the best way that I can describe it.
--- End quote ---
Makin' perfect sense to me, Diane. And I agree--if not hunderd percent, then pretty close.
You're in sales? You don't sell combines do you? :D
dly64:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on September 08, 2006, 02:17:11 pm ---You're in sales? You don't sell combines do you? :D
--- End quote ---
Wouldn't you like to know! ;) :laugh:
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