The World Beyond BetterMost > Anything Goes
Bush appoints anti-birth control fundamentalist to run family planning program
LauraGigs:
I respect your point of view and don't want to argue things into the ground. But you make it all sound so easy.
Hold the father accountable? How, exactly, when so many just abandon the mother? How would this be enforced? What infrastructure would state governments have to set up to enforce this, and how much would that cost (hello) taxpayers? (Or do we just magically privatize it all, and have adoption agencies chasing down deadbeat dads — adding to the cost of adoption, which is already prohibitive?)
--- Quote ---Giveng up a baby to a family for adoption is an honorable thing.
--- End quote ---
Again, so easy and simple. Healthy white infants are a hot "commodity", but what of the babies who don't fall into this category? What happens to them?
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: jpwagoneer1964 on November 18, 2006, 09:15:28 pm ---Sadly I don't think changing the legal status is the answer. I certainly do not disagree that in cases of rape, incest and the heath or imaturity of the mother preventing carrying full term.
I do think our citizens should he held accoutable for there actions. I never suggested that we imprission the father only have the pay the costs, not the taxpayers. This could be done just like deadbeat dad were it is collected thru Social Security. if the dad is a minor should be split between parents.
In California a minor teenage girl is requred parent permission to get her ears pierced but not to have an abortion!
Giveng up a baby to a family for adoption is an honorable thing.
--- End quote ---
Laura is right, you make it sound so quick and easy when it is nothing of the sort. Apparently you're not aware that enforcing deadbeat dads to cough up money also takes funding a whole bureacracy to do so - i.e. taxpayer money. And you underestimate the viability of such assistance. One friend had to call every month for enforcement because if she did not, her ex- would not pay. Another friend never got any money because every time her ex- got a job, reported his new job to the Attorney General for deductions to begin, he found out exactly how long the paperwork would take to go through, then he just quit his job and went to another and the whole process started again. That was of course, when he wasn't living on his new girlfriends. Not every father out there has an upscale profession that he can't leave.
In many situations, the father is an adult, over 18, but does not have a job. He's 19 or so, still living with his parents. Who are you going to suggest be billed then?
Society does constantly fund misjudgments. From welfare to social security. This is nothing new.
Adoption is an option. it is always an option, but it shouldn't be the only option.
And let's not pass judgments on what is honorable and what is not. You start to describe something as honorable, you put society right back into Middle Age attitudes.
Adoption is honorable.
Having sex ONLY in the bonds of matrimony is honorable.
All women (not men, mind you) who have sex outside of marriage are not honorable and as such are whores and should be stoned to death.
All that was and in some places still is 'honorable' too.
Who wants that?
injest:
In my state Texas, records show the fathers of the babies of teenage mothers are on AVERAGE seven (7) years older. That is the average!
and as far as collecting child support? the state attorney generals office tells the mothers that if the fathers pay even a little every month no charges will be filed on them. I have a friend that worked at Kmart? She said every month they would get women coming to pick up their child support from Western Union? they were all between 25 and 50 dollars. Because the men know that as long as they have a receipt saying they paid SOMETHING no one in the government was going to say a word.
Women on welfare getting $25 a month child support have no access to help. The program giving them legal assistance has been gutted. and the people figuring their food stamps or housing assistance count the FULL amount of the support to figure their allotments; no matter how much they are actually getting from the father.
There are no simple or economical solutions.
Penthesilea:
Just a quick statistics about fathers (not) paying child support. This statistics is from Germany, I'd be interested if any of you have one for the US.
Please have in mind that Germany has relatively strict laws concerning child support. Theoretically there's no way around it, but reality shows different:
1/3 pays no child support at all
1/3 pays too less and/or irregulary
1/3 pays regulary child support amounting to what the court decision says
Even fathers of born children lack of willingness to pay for their children. Many of them have lived together with their children for years. One should think it's self-evident to take financially care for their offspring - but it isn't.
Do you think fathers-to-be would be any more willing/responsible to contribute their share?
--- Quote ---From Mark:
I certainly do not disagree that in cases of rape, incest and the heath or imaturity of the mother preventing carrying full term.
--- End quote ---
So there are cases in which you think abortion is/should be/might be justified. But who has the right to decide in what cases an abortion is justified and in which not?
Roland has put it to the point:
--- Quote ---One hopes that the choice for or against abortion is a well informed one, but it MUST remain a woman's choice - not a religion based politically imposed decision.
--- End quote ---
The key to avoid abortions are not threats and punishments, but is sex education, access to contraceptive and providing advice and financial help for women who have an unwanted pregnancy.
injest:
and please note...although we have been discussing abortion...this guy is anti-BIRTH CONTROL...that means he objects to the pill, condom and natural methods....not just abortion!
he is not an anti abortionist...he is abstinence only!
and to me that is very close to the hard core religious people who feel it is wrong to attempt to stop getting pregnant at all. There are groups who feel it is the DUTY of married people to reproduce and take the stand that married couples should engage in sexual relations and leave it up to God how many children they are 'blessed' with.
remember there are religious people who object to masturbation too...all sex should be an opportunity for a baby to be born.
very unrealistic and to me dangerous.
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