Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
A Ninth Viewing Observation
jpwagoneer1964:
--- Quote from: nakymaton on August 09, 2006, 11:27:26 pm ---
(And jpwagoneer -- is that 1977 truck the one that people keep mentioning as being an error? I am really, really bad at dating vehicles.)
--- End quote ---
Actually 1973-1977 are almost the same, but the grilles are different. Interestingly Jacks red truck was a 1965-6 Ford and the later one Ennis had was a 1966 Ford, almost indentical except again the grille.
Mikaela:
--- Quote ---From Doug
Mikaela...Aggies is the nickname of Texas A & M (agriculture and mining), and from "agriculture" they came up with "Aggie" (much like "Brokies"). When you hear someone say "Aggie game", they are usually referring to football....
--- End quote ---
Thank you for clarifying this and apologies for forgetting to say so earlier! I figured the game the Malones met at had to be football, since it would jive so nicely with LD's comments about "men" (as clearly implying "real men") watching football, and Randall seems to work more actively than Jack at outwardly appearing as LD's kind of "real man." ::)
(The ::) is for the "real man" concept, not for Randall....)
--- Quote ---From Jane
Jack went up to LF immediately following his last trip with Ennis. In fact he told Ennis at the truck that he was gonna head up to LF for a day or two.
I have always assumed that when Jack's father told Ennis " then this spring he says he's gonna bring another fella up here to whup this ranch into shape, blah blah blah" - well I have always thought that Jack said this on that self-same visit to LF, the day after leaving Ennis for the last time.
--- End quote ---
I've always thought so too. Nothing else makes sense to me, neither psychologically nor timeline-wise in relation to the actual scenes we get to see, and what is said there.. Jack didn't see his folks all that often - he surely didn't go see them between that time directly after his and Ennis' cold last meeting in spring and his death the same year. (Screwed-up movie timelines be damned ). And he was seriously contemplating quitting, or had just decided to quit, for Ennis's sake as well as his own - so speaking the quitting out loud in bitterness and despair to convince himself he's really, really, actually, truly quitting makes sense too.
--- Quote ---From Diane
And I'm feeling now that the comment about the ranch neighbor is really Jack's bitterness and unhappiness talking. I'm doubting now that he would have really gone back to Texas and "proposed" to Randall the way he "proposed" to Ennis in '67.
--- End quote ---
I agree with that. I just can't see Randall going up there - I can't see Jack seeing Randall going up there, except in some kind of tentative daydreaming to let himself "sense the difference" if he should let Randall replace Ennis in his life (if not as his true love).
--- Quote ---From Diane
As far as it goes, I think someone has already mentioned, we don't ever actually see Jack suggesting to Ennis in so many words that they ranch up together on the Twist spread in Lightning Flat. [ ]For all we really see in either story or film, Jack was ruminating about bringing Ennis to Lightning Flat to his father and mother for years but never said a word to Ennis.
--- End quote ---
I think this is spot-on. I think Jack was biding his time, waiting for a moment when Ennis would be open for his moving to LF suggestion - waiting for the time when he'd managed to calm Ennis's skittish side sufficiently. But Ennis developed more paranoia, not less.... as he demonstrates in the "moving to Texas" harangue......and the years passed them by.
"I did - once" doesn't sound as if Jack thinks he broached the suggestion recently. I think his wish for a life lived together lay unspokenly between them over all the years of the fishing trips, so close to the surface it was discernible, tangible - but not said out loud again, never discussed, - still with both of them very keenly aware of it.
Ennis would have had no idea that Jack was talking so at length with his parents about Ennis moving up to LF, I'm sure of that. He'd not at all have thought Jack had any reason to believe any such thing.... Hope and dream, yes. Believe or consider confirmed, no.
Poor Jack. :'( Hoping and dreaming. And poor Ennis. :'(
serious crayons:
So if Jack's plan to move with Randall to LF was empty talk triggered by his frustration with Ennis, and if he probably wouldn't have really wanted to live with Randall, and if Randall probably wouldn't want to do it anyway ... then I would say Jack wouldn't have quit Ennis.
Meanwhile, Ennis was shaken by the argument with Jack, he told Jack he couldn't stand it no more (suggesting that he has to fix it), he went home and broke up with Cassie, his encounter with her in the bus station made him think about his relationship in a new way, he looked perky when getting the mail because he was looking forward to a change ... then I would say he planned to move their relationship up to a new level.
So voila! Happy ending.
Oh, except for one thing ... :'( :'( :'(
dly64:
--- Quote from: [email protected] on August 10, 2006, 12:01:59 am ---dly64 and nakymaton...good job researching the SMU and their football schedule this fall. I'm guessing nakymaton is a football fan, but dly64 not so much? I was unable to get back to this subject soon, but I did manage to watch the scene again and heard her say it.
--- End quote ---
Actually, Doug, I am a huge football fan … but not college. I like pro. Go COLTS!!!!
--- Quote from: latjoreme on August 10, 2006, 10:57:20 am ---So if Jack's plan to move with Randall to LF was empty talk triggered by his frustration with Ennis, and if he probably wouldn't have really wanted to live with Randall, and if Randall probably wouldn't want to do it anyway ... then I would say Jack wouldn't have quit Ennis.
Meanwhile, Ennis was shaken by the argument with Jack, he told Jack he couldn't stand it no more (suggesting that he has to fix it), he went home and broke up with Cassie, his encounter with her in the bus station made him think about his relationship in a new way, he looked perky when getting the mail because he was looking forward to a change ... then I would say he planned to move their relationship up to a new level.
So voila! Happy ending.
Oh, except for one thing ... :'( :'( :'(
--- End quote ---
Am I sensing a bit of sarcasm? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: dly64 on August 10, 2006, 11:35:46 am ---Am I sensing a bit of sarcasm? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
--- End quote ---
Well, maybe a bit of sarcasm, but mixed with a LOT of sincere hopefulness. I genuinely do cling to the belief that Jack didn't quit Ennis and Ennis was planning to change, because I like to interpret the movie in the least sad way possible. Unfortunately, that only goes so far. :-\
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