Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
A Ninth Viewing Observation
jpwagoneer1964:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on August 10, 2006, 12:26:28 pm ---Well, maybe a bit of sarcasm, but mixed with a LOT of sincere hopefulness. I genuinely do cling to the belief that Jack didn't quit Ennis and Ennis was planning to change, because I like to interpret the movie in the least sad way possible. Unfortunately, that only goes so far. :-\
--- End quote ---
Me too. After both of the grils wer grown Ennis would have at least made more time for Jack, his lasts years of child support and all made it less.
welliwont:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on August 10, 2006, 10:57:20 am ---So if Jack's plan to move with Randall to LF was empty talk triggered by his frustration with Ennis, and if he probably wouldn't have really wanted to live with Randall, and if Randall probably wouldn't want to do it anyway ... then I would say Jack wouldn't have quit Ennis.
--- End quote ---
I really can’t figure out of you are being serious or joking here, but the question of whether or not Jack would quit Ennis, (I think of it as try to quit Ennis) does not hinge on whether or not he could lure Randall to LF. I don’t think Jack necessarily even wants to live at LF, but it will be his inheritance eventually, I expect. And he would go there if it was something that would suit Ennis. I do believe Jack was going to try and quit Ennis, but he was doing this, the hardest thing he ever would have to do, for Ennis’ and his own emotional wellbeing, not because he could snag another guy.
--- Quote ---Meanwhile, Ennis was shaken by the argument with Jack, he told Jack he couldn't stand it no more (suggesting that he has to fix it), he went home and broke up with Cassie, his encounter with her in the bus station made him think about his relationship in a new way, he looked perky when getting the mail because he was looking forward to a change ... then I would say he planned to move their relationship up to a new level.
So voila! Happy ending.
Oh, except for one thing ... :'( :'( :'(
--- End quote ---
Nor do I think that Ennis had a change of intention since the argument. The words “I just can’t stand it no more” just burst out of him in response to Jack’s outburst, I don’t think Ennis had an epiphany and decided to change the course of his life. IMO. The lightbulb that presumably went off in his head when Cassie said the line to him about “girls don’t fall in love with fun” was in the movie but not in the story. I don’t really see that Ennis ever made a decision to change his conduct.
Are you kidding with these conclusions, or do you really believe them? I’m at work, gotta go….
Jane
welliwont:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on August 10, 2006, 12:26:28 pm ---Well, maybe a bit of sarcasm, but mixed with a LOT of sincere hopefulness. I genuinely do cling to the belief that Jack didn't quit Ennis and Ennis was planning to change, because I like to interpret the movie in the least sad way possible. Unfortunately, that only goes so far. :-\
--- End quote ---
Ok, now I see that you are not joking and you sincerely believe those things. Well good for you. :D If you can see all that, I applaud you. And no, I am not being sarcastic. Maybe if I continue to absorb and injest every minutae and morsel of this fine film/story I will have a change of heart. It is still not 100% set in my heart, every little nuance of this fine film/story; for example, I have not interpreted to my satisfaction Ennis' outpouring: "Why dontcha then? ...."
I am at work so I can't get into the interpretation of the "Why doncha" rejoinder right now, but BTW, it is worded differently in the 2004 screenplay, it goes longer, and that in itself is enlightening. Although I do realize that I cannot use the different dialogue to decipher the real dialogue ultimately used in the movie. (it shows at least James Schamus's interpretation?).
Gotta go,
J
Mikaela:
You know, I keep changing my mind. Or not changing it, exactly, but letting the various arguments weigh more or less according to the compelling posts I read from others - and the mood I'm in. The more romantic, the less the quitter....
--- Quote ---So if Jack's plan to move with Randall to LF was empty talk triggered by his frustration with Ennis, and if he probably wouldn't have really wanted to live with Randall, and if Randall probably wouldn't want to do it anyway ... then I would say Jack wouldn't have quit Ennis.
--- End quote ---
I think he would, or could, still have quit Ennis even so. Because his reason for quitting IMO mainly is love and concern for Ennis (and himself); - their relationship is "killing them" - their spirit, their love, their lives if not their excistence. Jack's wish to be with someone else would be entirely secondary to a perceived need to set Ennis free for Ennis's own sake. If so, whether or not he could be certain that Randall was willing to commit to anything more than what they previously had would not be an important deciding factor for Jack. And Jack could in this scenario still go on about the ranch neighbour to his parents immediately after having seen Ennis, to convince himself he could manage the quitting. :( :-\
Then when he got back to Childress, it seems he'd overtaxed his "quitting" resources and probably was in very much doubt - consequently the drinking and the (probable) carelessness . That face of Jack's in the very last scene we see with him.... I can imagine him returning to Childress completely mentally worn out, heavily depressed, unable to make further changes and decisions. **sniff** Only we don't get to see that, while we *do* get to see Ennis's corresponding state of mind. Was there ever a more dejected and lonely-looking person than that silent man sitting by himself in the empty cafe, looking crushed by life, barely managing to nibble at his sad little piece of pie? **sniff**
I am close to agreeing that *Ennis* was ready to try to change - that the scene in the cafe shows some sort of epiphany.... Less certain about his ability to change. And we would have known, if not for........ :'(
Concerning whether or not J&E ever discussed a life together after the "cow and calf operation" talk, I've been wondering about what, if anything, was said when they met a month after the disastrous post-divorce scene. Would they both have pretended that nothing happened? Would they have just let be, let be without comment? Would they have talked through what happened, - at all? At least touched upon Jack's hopes and Ennis's fears? Would Ennis pretend that he thought Jack'd come up to be with him for a weekend or so, which was impossible because of the girls? Well, "pretend" is not the right word here, I know, that's doing Ennis an injustice - it's more that Ennis uses his "the girls" mantra (and the "child support" one as well) when he doesn't really know what else to *say* - however deeply he feels - when he just can't find the words. So let me rephrase: If they talked about that post-divorce disaster at all, did Ennis continue to explain his behaviour with having to take care of the girls?
Edit: Hey, Jane, you posted while I was scribbling away. Seems we're on to some of the same thoughts. :)
dly64:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on August 10, 2006, 12:26:28 pm ---Well, maybe a bit of sarcasm, but mixed with a LOT of sincere hopefulness. I genuinely do cling to the belief that Jack didn't quit Ennis and Ennis was planning to change, because I like to interpret the movie in the least sad way possible. Unfortunately, that only goes so far. :-\
--- End quote ---
Honestly, I feel the same way. I never subscribed to the idea that Jack would quit Ennis. As for Ennis, he finally realized the feelings that he had for Jack were “love.” Whether or not Ennis was going to have the “sweet life” with Ennis is doubtful. But, I do think their relationship was going to head in a different direction …. But it was too late! WHY!!!??
:'(
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