Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
A Ninth Viewing Observation
jpwagoneer1964:
--- Quote from: Mikaela on August 10, 2006, 01:50:56 pm --- .
I think he would, or could, still have quit Ennis even so. Because his reason for quitting IMO mainly is love and concern for Ennis (and himself); - their relationship is "killing them" - their spirit, their love, their lives if not their excistence. Jack's wish to be with someone else would be entirely secondary to a perceived need to set Ennis free for Ennis's own sake. If so, whether or not he could be certain that Randall was willing to commit to anything more than what they previously had would not be an important deciding factor for Jack. And Jack could in this scenario still go on about the ranch neighbour to his parents immediately after having seen Ennis, to convince himself he could manage the quitting. :( :-\
I am close to agreeing that *Ennis* was ready to try to change - that the scene in the cafe shows some sort of epiphany.... Less certain about his ability to change. And we would have known, if not for........ :'(
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I don't think Jack would or could quit Ennis. He was just frustrated that they may not ever have a life together. it was that Ennis could not meet in Aug that strated the argument, not about ranching up.
I feel Ennis honored, treasured and did his best to protect the relasionship. Wy was not a safe place to then and maybe not even now. With the gril grown up I'm sure he would have at least been able to spend more time with Jack.
nakymaton:
--- Quote from: JakeTwist on August 10, 2006, 01:35:31 pm ---...the question of whether or not Jack would quit Ennis, (I think of it as try to quit Ennis) does not hinge on whether or not he could lure Randall to LF. I don’t think Jack necessarily even wants to live at LF, but it will be his inheritance eventually, I expect. And he would go there if it was something that would suit Ennis. I do believe Jack was going to try and quit Ennis, but he was doing this, the hardest thing he ever would have to do, for Ennis’ and his own emotional wellbeing, not because he could snag another guy.
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I don't think the question of whether Jack was trying to quit Ennis hinges on whether he could snag another guy. The question of whether he could succeed, though... if Randall wasn't willing or able to give Jack what he needed, what would Jack do when faced by one of Ennis's postcards? It's one thing to say "I wish I knew how to quit you" in the heat of an argument, or to tell OMT a story about this other guy while feeling particularly bitter. It's another thing to have had that aching emptiness in his gut for several months and then hold one of those postcards, written in Ennis's handwriting, saying the usual things, and simply throw it away without answering.
Some people do it. Could Jack? I don't know. It would take a particular kind of strength, a different strength than Jack had, I think.
(Of course, Jack's way may have been to get depressed and become careless about changing tires, or about revealing his sexual orientation to hostile people...)
dly64:
--- Quote from: Mikaela on August 10, 2006, 01:50:56 pm ---Concerning whether or not J&E ever discussed a life together after the "cow and calf operation" talk, I've been wondering about what, if anything, was said when they met a month after the disastrous post-divorce scene. Would they both have pretended that nothing happened? Would they have just let be, let be without comment? Would they have talked through what happened, - at all? At least touched upon Jack's hopes and Ennis's fears? Would Ennis pretend that he thought Jack'd come up to be with him for a weekend or so, which was impossible because of the girls? Well, "pretend" is not the right word here, I know, that's doing Ennis an injustice - it's more that Ennis uses his "the girls" mantra (and the "child support" one as well) when he doesn't really know what else to *say* - however deeply he feels - when he just can't find the words. So let me rephrase: If they talked about that post-divorce disaster at all, did Ennis continue to explain his behaviour with having to take care of the girls?
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I think the post-divorce scene was a turning point for Jack. Before that, although we have no additional dialogue on the subject, Jack was hopeful that if Ennis divorced, they would have a life together. But Jack comes to the painful realization, after driving 14 hours to see Ennis only to be turned away, that it (the “sweet life” that Jack craved) would never happen. At that moment, Jack’s hopes and dreams died. IMO, neither one ever brought it up again …. none of it (the divorce fiasco, the hope for a life together, etc.) This is evidenced by the conversation at the lake scene. Jack asks Ennis, “after all this time, you ain’t find nobody else to marry?” Jack has resigned the fact that Ennis is too paranoid and homophobic to ever publicly acknowledge their relationship. I think Jack knew that Ennis used the girls as an excuse …. a way to put Jack off.
Front-Ranger:
One of the things that turns this story into an epic tragedy is that, at the time of the lake scene, Ennis was almost ready to accept Jack in his life, and Jack was almost ready to give up on Ennis and move on with his life. In the words of Proulx, each of them got untwisted like a wire hanger is unbent just long enough to unlock a car door, or to see into each other's souls, and then they were torqued back into almost their original positions. So, in the end, they were both hung up on the wire hanger in the closet with no way out. Block that metaphor!!
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: dly64 on August 10, 2006, 02:08:45 pm ---I think the post-divorce scene was a turning point for Jack. Before that, although we have no additional dialogue on the subject, Jack was hopeful that if Ennis divorced, they would have a life together. But Jack comes to the painful realization, after driving 14 hours to see Ennis only to be turned away, that it (the “sweet life” that Jack craved) would never happen. At that moment, Jack’s hopes and dreams died. IMO, neither one ever brought it up again …. none of it (the divorce fiasco, the hope for a life together, etc.) This is evidenced by the conversation at the lake scene. Jack asks Ennis, “after all this time, you ain’t find nobody else to marry?” Jack has resigned the fact that Ennis is too paranoid and homophobic to ever publicly acknowledge their relationship. I think Jack knew that Ennis used the girls as an excuse …. a way to put Jack off.
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Very well expressed, Diane. I agree. (Although, with specific regard to the girls when Jack shows up unannounced and unexpectedly after Ennis's divorce, I've reluctantly felt that Ennis was right to put his children before his lover. It makes me hurt so much for both of them, Ennis and Jack. If only Jack had written first, before showing up unannounced. ... :'( )
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