Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Why was the Dozy Embrace so sad?
Cameron:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on April 03, 2007, 06:49:48 pm ---That makes chronological sense. Would it have been between "the first time" and the second tent scene? That would have accorded with the part in the story's description of Jack's memory that at the time it took place, Ennis couldn't bring himself to acknowledge that it was a man he was embracing.
On the other hand, placed where it is, as a flashback that we didn't see when it actually took place in 1963, it's very true to Annie Proulx's narrative.
--- End quote ---
It is confusing to try to figure out when it took place. I always thought it happened at the very end of the summer. Actually I always thought it was the evening before the morning that Ennis wakes up in the snow. But it does make sense that it could have happened between TS1 and TS2 in the movie, because after TS 2 movie Ennis clearly has no problem being with Jack face to face.
But then again, didn't TS 2 most likely happen the evening after TS 1, so when could it have happened? That would have made sense if there was actually more sex before TS 2, like I think there was supposed to be in the earlier scripts. But as the film is I don't know where there was time for it, so I always thought it wasn't about Ennis not being able to face Jack. I have thought that it was just a pure expression of love that just happened that way.
But of course there never was a TS 2 in the book. So maybe there is no way to really figure it out.
But I still wish it was longer.....
RossInIllinois:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on April 03, 2007, 06:49:48 pm ---That makes chronological sense. Would it have been between "the first time" and the second tent scene? That would have accorded with the part in the story's description of Jack's memory that at the time it took place, Ennis couldn't bring himself to acknowledge that it was a man he was embracing.
On the other hand, placed where it is, as a flashback that we didn't see when it actually took place in 1963, it's very true to Annie Proulx's narrative.
Still, I wish it could have gone on just a bit longer. ... :-\
--- End quote ---
It was intended to be in both spots the longer full version before the flash back version. Thats why when you see the flash back version its confusing as to where or when. With the intended long version in place as well the latter version its then easily known as a recollection of something established in the past. They should have added the scene to the collector DVD but they didn't. As I recall Heath Ledger did not like the fact that the scene was written in a way that made him look like the sheep were more important than Jack. He didn't like the fact that he just turns away and rides off to the sheep camp, but thats the way it was written and they wanted to play it.
Front-Ranger:
As far as I'm concerned, it was some time after they switched places and after they became lovers, but before they left the mountain. What more slicing and dicing is needed? And, thinking more about what makes the scene sad, I think it is the music that makes it so, more than any other thing. The music adds so much. When you listen to the soundtrack, it is almost like viewing the movie, just like the whole experience. But when you look at the movie without sound, there is so much missing.
As I listen to the soundtrack, there is a theme that is introduced and then is repeated again, and only in the third repetition (the dozy embrace) is it complete with strings and all the instruments. This is the climax of the film orchestrally.
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: Cameron on April 03, 2007, 07:38:14 pm ---It is confusing to try to figure out when it took place. I always thought it happened at the very end of the summer. Actually I always thought it was the evening before the morning that Ennis wakes up in the snow. But it does make sense that it could have happened between TS1 and TS2 in the movie, because after TS 2 movie Ennis clearly has no problem being with Jack face to face.
But then again, didn't TS 2 most likely happen the evening after TS 1, so when could it have happened? That would have made sense if there was actually more sex before TS 2, like I think there was supposed to be in the earlier scripts. But as the film is I don't know where there was time for it, so I always thought it wasn't about Ennis not being able to face Jack. I have thought that it was just a pure expression of love that just happened that way.
But of course there never was a TS 2 in the book. So maybe there is no way to really figure it out.
But I still wish it was longer.....
--- End quote ---
It's funny. I deliberately re-read the story before I saw the film the weekend it opened here in Philadelphia, and even I was confused for about half a minute, maybe a little less, when the flashback came on screen. Then I realized what was happening and was stunned--not for the first time--at how faithful the film was to Annie Proulx's story.
We've had intense debates over the length of time between TS1 and TS2. Maybe it would have made more sense for the full version of the dozy embrace to come after TS2 but before the snow storm?
--- Quote from: RossInIllinois on April 03, 2007, 07:52:47 pm ---It was intended to be in both spots the longer full version before the flash back version. Thats why when you see the flash back version its confusing as to where or when. With the intended long version in place as well the latter version its then easily known as a recollection of something established in the past. They should have added the scene to the collector DVD but they didn't. As I recall Heath Ledger did not like the fact that the scene was written in a way that made him look like the sheep were more important than Jack. He didn't like the fact that he just turns away and rides off to the sheep camp, but thats the way it was written and they wanted to play it.
--- End quote ---
Interesting that Heath should feel that way about the scene. Again, Ennis riding back to the sheep is true to the story and seems to fit with the way we see his attitude toward the job in the film.
Cameron:
--- Quote from: Front-Ranger on April 03, 2007, 09:53:33 pm ---As far as I'm concerned, it was some time after they switched places and after they became lovers, but before they left the mountain. What more slicing and dicing is needed? And, thinking more about what makes the scene sad, I think it is the music that makes it so, more than any other thing. The music adds so much. When you listen to the soundtrack, it is almost like viewing the movie, just like the whole experience. But when you look at the movie without sound, there is so much missing.
As I listen to the soundtrack, there is a theme that is introduced and then is repeated again, and only in the third repetition (the dozy embrace) is it complete with strings and all the instruments. This is the climax of the film orchestrally.
--- End quote ---
I do totally agree with you about the music. I finally got the soundtrack a couple of weeks ago and I listened to it last night, and you are so right, just listening to that part brought back all the feelings of actually seeing it. In fact I don't think that I really appreciated the DE until I began really paying attention to the music.
So maybe the music is one of the most important factors in making the DE so sad by itself.
And Jeff, I didn't read the book before I saw it and it took me a few times till I got what was happening. I certainly would love to see that full scene.
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