Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by PeterDecker (Fri Aug 18 2006 23:47:36 )
UPDATED Fri Aug 18 2006 23:48:18
CaseyCornelius: "Ennis ordering soup because Jack didn't want any more beans"
This is one of my faves. Ennis first tells the supply guy he doesn't like soup. Then when Jack says 'no more beans' Ennis tells the guy he's wants soup cause he's sick of beans -- 'too early in the summer to be sick of beans'.
A couple of scenes later Ennis is eating beans out of the can going Mmmmm, cause he liked beans all along. He got the soup just for Jack, as Casey mentioned.
Same thing when Jack complains about spending all that time 'commutin' back and forth to the pup tent. Right away Ennis says, well I wouldn't mind switchin' with ya.
Ennis doesn't say much but long before that first tent scene you can see by his actions that he's got feelings for Jack.
It's moments like this that I realize Ennis is falling in love with Jack.
This film is a masterpiece of understatement. You practically have to feel your way through it, it's so subtle. For someone who doesn't storyboard his films Lee may as well have made Brokeback Mountain into a silent film. And I mean that as a great compliment. You could watch it without any dialogue and only a few intertitles and still -- get it.
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by berit-6 (Sat Aug 19 2006 00:15:30 ) A lot of people dislike the movie because of the pace, it being bring and silent and so on. But if people mostly watch actionmovies with a lot of action this movie must be a challange for them.Not a crash or a bang, just real people, for me the most exitiong that can be!
I missed the 2 last words the first time I saw it.
by toycoon (Sat Aug 19 2006 16:52:16 ) I had to ask my BF what Ennis said !
" 'I swear?' What does that mean?"
Re: I missed the 2 last words the first time I saw it.
by BannerHill (Sat Aug 19 2006 23:48:54 ) Really?
I had no idea why Ennis was sulking when they came down from the mountain. I did not know why they were suddenly in a fistfight.
Re: I missed the 2 last words the first time I saw it.
by russellt-4 (Wed Aug 23 2006 17:57:32 ) This might be because I'm dense, but I noticed that Ennis may have got into a fight with the biker dudes at the fireworks show for more than one reason. When I first saw it, I thought he was just trying to protect his family, but recently I noticed the remark one of the biker dudes makes: "he probably stopped giving it to his wife after the kids were born" - maybe he interpreted that as "we know you're queer" even though they were just taunting? (sorry if everyone else whose seen this got it the first time, but this is one of the few truly deep movies I've ever watched!)
"I am the snake of truth and I will not be silenced!!!"
Re: Biker's comments a 'souvenir'/reminder of Brokeback
by LauraGigs (Thu Aug 24 2006 08:47:51 ) About the biker scene:
Ennis keeps saying "I have 2 lil' girls here." But his daughters are far too young at that point to understand anything that's being said, so it must be something else that's bothering Ennis: the "puttin' it to the wife" remark, obviously.
Another example of his desperate, hollow attempts to distract from his own core issues that he fears everyone sees (although the bikers couldn't have known his reason for feeling threatened). Reminds me of the "do you think everyone knows" question he asks Jack later.
[Post deleted]Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by LauraGigs (Thu Aug 24 2006 08:41:22 ) "Ennis doesn't say much but long before that first tent scene you can see by his actions that he's got feelings for Jack."
I didn't notice the first time: When Ennis is saying "Tent don't look right" and meticulously rearranging it, he's doing it for Jack. They've already switched places and he won't be sleeping there. (Unless he's fixing the tent for unconscious reasons . . . !)
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by BannerHill (Thu Aug 24 2006 10:32:39 ) <<Ennis' comment that the tent doesn't look right is a symbolic statement of their sexual relationship. Try as he did to make the tent look right, he never could.>>
Wow basicgrate, that's good!
[Post deleted] Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by littlewing1957 (Thu Aug 24 2006 13:16:31 ) <<The tent plays a significant role in their "coming of age." Their first two couplings were in the tent. Even out in the middle of nowhere, high up on the mountain, they needed something even more to "hide" in. The short story makes a point of telling us that they continued for a while only having sex in the tent, at night, and only later moving it outside in the daylight. This is symbolic of their relationship as a whole. While the mountain is a secret enclave for them, the tent is an even more secret enclave. On the mountain they were able to get out of the tent. But when they went back to society, off the mountain, they still repressed and in a symbolic way kept it all inside that tent -- kept it secret. Ennis' comment that the tent doesn't look right is a symbolic statement of their sexual relationship. Try as he did to make the tent look right, he never could. Jack said let it be, it isn't going anywhere. In other words, they didn't have to make it look right for anyone else. It was their tent (their relationship, their secret) not society's. Also, Ennis' comment at the final lake scene "I'm nowhere" is an allusion to the tent as relationship and secret. It wasn't going anywhere and Ennis is nowhere after 20 years of their relationship.>>
This is deep! Heavy! Thanks for posting!
Tent symbolism
by LauraGigs (Thu Aug 24 2006 14:00:53 ) Agreed, basicgrate.
I think it's interesting the way they planned how Ennis (and we, the viewers) find out that their summer together is ending. Jack knows already, and tells Ennis as he's taking the tent down.
And as the tent collapses, Ennis' spirit collapses right along with it.
(Interesting, too, how the ceiling of Jack's room is colored and shaped just like the tent.)
[Post deleted] Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by Santinos_Bridesmade (Thu Aug 24 2006 18:52:18 ) The tent plays a significant role in their "coming of age." Their first two couplings were in the tent. Even out in the middle of nowhere, high up on the mountain, they needed something even more to "hide" in. The short story makes a point of telling us that they continued for a while only having sex in the tent, at night, and only later moving it outside in the daylight. This is symbolic of their relationship as a whole. While the mountain is a secret enclave for them, the tent is an even more secret enclave. On the mountain they were able to get out of the tent. But when they went back to society, off the mountain, they still repressed and in a symbolic way kept it all inside that tent -- kept it secret. Ennis' comment that the tent doesn't look right is a symbolic statement of their sexual relationship. Try as he did to make the tent look right, he never could. Jack said let it be, it isn't going anywhere. In other words, they didn't have to make it look right for anyone else. It was their tent (their relationship, their secret) not society's. Also, Ennis' comment at the final lake scene "I'm nowhere" is an allusion to the tent as relationship and secret. It wasn't going anywhere and Ennis is nowhere after 20 years of their relationship.
Beautiful!!
"Jack, I swear...."
Feel your way through it!!
by Santinos_Bridesmade (Thu Aug 24 2006 19:00:58 ) This film is a masterpiece of understatement. You practically have to feel your way through it, it's so subtle. For someone who doesn't storyboard his films Lee may as well have made Brokeback Mountain into a silent film. And I mean that as a great compliment. You could watch it without any dialogue and only a few intertitles and still -- get it.
Feel your way through it!! That's EXACTLY how it is! I've been looking for words to describe this quality of the film, and I couldn't! You did it! You can't just watch the film as events unfold - you have to feel your way through it. Not just watch and hear - observe, listen, and feel! That's a wonderful way to put it.
I never understood the appeal of silent films before - now I do. I used to wonder, how can you have a movie without speaking? Now I know - certain movies demand that you fill in the blanks yourself. And that's exactly what I love about this movie.
"Jack, I swear...."
Re: Feel your way through it!!
by featherlou (Wed Sep 20 2006 15:00:54 ) Originally posted by Santinos_Bridesmade:
certain movies demand that you fill in the blanks yourself.
The way I look at it, Ang gives you all the ingredients, but you have to bake your own cake with this movie. VERY different from the way most modern movies spoonfeed the audience everything they're supposed to think and feel about what's happening.
I would say that what is most commonly missed in the first viewing is the growing relationship between the boys before they start, um, getting physical in the tent (as well as everything else mentioned.)
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by idm6 (Wed Aug 23 2006 20:00:44 ) I love the scene, just before Ennis and Jack separate their sheeps from the chile guys, ridding horses togheter, when Ennis complains one more time about Jack's harmonica sound, and smiles to Jack, like saying: this is my boy and I love the way he is.
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by nuvowest777 (Sat Sep 9 2006 08:47:26 ) I just noticed two things on my umpteenth viewing that I don't think have been mentioned. After Ennis' "You may be a sinner..." speech, he looks down as Jack is handing him the bottle and as Jack is still looking away, Ennis glances back as if to gauge the impact of his words.
Also, I don't think I'm imagining it, but when Ennis comes into the tent on the first night and lies down, Jack's expression seems to change into an ever so slight smile right before the shot changes to the full moon. It is so brief, but it seems to be there.
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by daphne7661 (Sat Sep 9 2006 11:15:34 ) Yes, Ennis does, in fact, look back at Jack to gauge his reaction to his (Ennis') basically confessing to his virginity AND Jack does indeed smile when Ennis lies down next to him in the first tent scene...
This may have already been posted, but, in the parting scene by Jack's truck when they first come down from the mountain at the end of the Summer of'63, poor Ennis is so confused by his own demons and conflicting emotions of what to do vs. what he wants to do, that he is constantly eyeing Jack to see what he (Jack) will say or do to get a clue about how they're gonna get through this separation - or not! However, I don't think Jack understands because he is so caught up with waiting for Ennis to say something - which he learns the hard way is just not what Ennis is capable of doing - ever!
...Nice to know ya, Ennis del Mar...
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by BannerHill (Mon Sep 18 2006 23:52:16 ) Hey I love this thread too!
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by skessa (Tue Oct 3 2006 07:01:21 ) i'll bump this thread again as a memorial of my own being totally blind - on my first vewing of it i was SO prejudiced about the movie that i didn't notice a singe thing of what was mentioned above. it didn't make sense to me at all.
i had the whole four days of the bloody inner battle between my mind (not having a clue of what i had seen) and my wise heart (telling me it was much more than i could imgine) before i had to admit this film demanded another viewing.
and so - here i am, another Brokeholic!!!
i'm a non-native speaker. if you find my language awkward – send me a private message!
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by BannerHill (Tue Oct 3 2006 12:14:52 ) <<I can't resist trotting out one of my pet theories, that the shirts -- hung by a nail and bloodied at the wrist -- are themselves a visual reference to the Crucifixion. >>
Thanks, Naun. That is a very interesting observation.
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by Shasta254 (Sun Oct 29 2006 17:35:47 ) In one thread--that I cannot find now--someone said, "Did you see the earrings that Alma Jr. was wearing?" Well, I looked and could not tell what they were. In the truck they look blue and at his trailer her earrings look round. Does anyone know? Maybe I am wrong and they were talking about the MOM. I also think it is funny that the girl is named Alma, Jr. I have always heard of boys being juniors to their dads, but never girls. That's pretty cool. Maybe it's a Texas thing.
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by darkoKnight33 (Sun Oct 29 2006 23:42:06 ) UPDATED Sun Oct 29 2006 23:43:55
I cannot remember for sure but the first time I saw this (in the theater of coarse) I think I missed the thunderstorm creeping up onto our boy Jack while he was sleeping in the field. I was looking at him and it is such a short glimpse that I missed it. I know this has not much to do with plot or character developement, but it is sooo beautiful. It is like a gorgeous painting with the lightning crashing right before Ang cuts the scene.
I may be in the minority as far as missing it the first time but I was just so focused on Jack that I don't remember looking at the rest of the screen to catch it.
This thread idea is an excellent one!
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by BannerHill (Mon Oct 30 2006 00:39:00 ) You mean when Jack is sleeping and we see lightning beyond him and then we cut to Ennis in the tent whittling a horse?
I had actually never connected these two shots in the sense that it was the same storm....
odd.
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by darkoKnight33 (Mon Oct 30 2006 08:00:23 ) 
UPDATED Mon Oct 30 2006 08:28:43
Me neither Banner, it is odd isn't it? But it is also one of the things that I love best about this film. Everytime I watch it I catch some new thing or new aspect that refreshes my appreciation for the film as a whole (not that I really need any more reasons to love BB, or would I think my appreciation could possibly get any higher, but lo and behold, every time, it happens) and I absolutely love every second of it. The quality of this film is so rare, it's like seeing a unicorn or something.
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by Dancing_Bear 4 days ago (Wed Nov 22 2006 09:44:51 ) Hi,
Question, that horse that Ennis whittles early on while on Brokeback, is that the same horse/cowboy carving that he's fingering in Jack's bedroom at Lightning Flats? Or I'm thinking that since he's a whittler it's something he made in '63 and Jack swiped it, like the shirt.
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by NewHorizons37 (Mon Oct 30 2006 08:32:32 ) Shasta,
Alma Jr's earrings were bluebirds, in the scene where they are in Ennis' truck as she asks to come live with him.
Ennis and family lived in Wyoming, so naming their daughter "Junior" is not a Texas thing.
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by Shasta254 (Mon Oct 30 2006 17:38:39 ) Thank you, NewHorizons37. Was there a symbolic meaning to the earrings? Just wondering---the poster seemed to hint that there was. I know bluebirds are sometimes a sign of happiness. That doesn't seem to fit the movie much. Maybe because Jr. was happy when she was with Ennis.
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by JPJenny (Mon Oct 30 2006 21:02:32 ) Shasta, I posted the following when you first posted your question but maybe you didn't see it?
------------------------------------------------------------
by JPJenny 1 day ago (Sun Oct 29 2006 12:14:47 )
Her earrings are bluebirds. In BBM blue is Jack’s color but it’s also color of love. Another reference to bluebirds is when Ennis calls Lureen, she says: “I thought Brokeback Mountain might be around where he grew up. Knowing Jack, it might be some pretend place where bluebirds sing and there’s whiskey spring."
Alma calls Alma Jr. “Alma” (grocery scene) but Ennis calls her “Junior.” Someone said that maybe it’s because it reminds him of Jack with the “J.”
PS Did you hear Ennis' "I love you" in the closet scene? I saw your post on another thread. Good luck!
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Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by Shasta254 (Mon Oct 30 2006 22:01:35 ) OK--I see the connection of the bluebirds now. Thanks. Sometimes I don't read -- I skim--and I miss things. I remember Lureen saying that and thought the "whiskey spring" was humorous maybe the 4th time I heard it. It's a sad scene to find funny tho. You know how much more Ennis is going to miss Jack than Lureen is.
I am trying to convince myself that I heard it the I love you.
I posted again about it after watching the movie again tonight. Turned up the volume, turned on the captions, rewound, etc. I will try it again.
Thank you!!
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by beans1030 3 days ago (Thu Nov 23 2006 17:52:04 ) One thing I missed the first time around, was when Ennis was washing the pots in the river, he looked up in the sky. I thought he was checking out the clouds rolling in, but he was watching Jack up on the mountain on his horse.
Another thing that I loved, that I didn't catch at first, was the looks that Jack and Ennis give each other when Ennis says his father says "Rodeo cowboys are all *beep* ups." He gives Jack that look, because he says that on purpose to bust his butt, and they share that little look.
And I also noticed how Jack wasn't shy around Ennis, but was shy around Lureen.
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by Shasta254 3 days ago (Thu Nov 23 2006 18:42:14 ) I'll be darned, Beans1030---you are an eagle eye. Since I read your post, I am watching the movie again and I saw Ennis watching Jack. I had to rewind a couple times to pick him out. Jack is really small--far away. If you had not put that in your post, I would have NEVER seen him. That was really good!
"Gettin' tired of your dumbass missin'!"
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by beans1030 3 days ago (Thu Nov 23 2006 18:45:50 ) Glad to have helped
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by jane16_2005 (Mon Oct 30 2006 17:33:12 ) At the beginning of the movie, when Jack and Ennis are waiting outside of the trailer, Jack is shaving in the pickup mirror and "checks Ennis out" through the mirror.
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by Shasta254 (Sun Nov 5 2006 15:58:10 ) Today, I just noticed for the first time that they move the sheep from the original place and set up camp for the 2nd time. I always wondered why Ennis was messing with the tent and said, "Tent don't look right." I just thought he was trying to make it better, not re-pitching it. Wow--I need to pay better attention.
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by Shasta254 (Sat Nov 11 2006 22:00:42 ) I missed the look on Ennis's face after he says, "Del Mar", to Cassie when she is leading him out to the dance floor. What a look! I don't think he was all that thrilled to be accosted by that cute girl, at least he didn't wanna dance, I guess.
"Gettin' tired of your dumbass missin'!"
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by BannerHill 6 days ago (Mon Nov 20 2006 15:15:35 ) Here's an obscure thing I missed on the first viewing.
I did not realize how extaordinary it is that Jack is so different from his father. I did not realize how much faith and trust it must have taken for Jack to be who he was coming from such a hostile environment.
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by beans1030 13 hours ago (Sun Nov 26 2006 19:39:30 ) How the first time seeing it, you feel like the first tent scene comes out of nowhere, but when you see it more times, you pick up all the "flirtyness" (sp?) going on between them. Ennis speaks volumes with his looks, as does Jack.
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by BannerHill 8 hours ago (Sun Nov 26 2006 23:59:46 ) I agree with beans
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by Shasta254 8 hours ago (Mon Nov 27 2006 00:16:10 ) The most surprising thing that happened in the movie the first time I saw it was that Jack died. I was just floored. I really don't know how I thought that the story would end; I guess I had no expectations, but when Ennis read that "deceased" postcard---I was shocked.
I was also surprised at the 2 hour + movie seeming to be over so quickly.
"Gettin' tired of your dumbass missin'!"
Re: Twenty things first timers often miss.
by brfluc-1 1 hour ago (Mon Nov 27 2006 07:05:09 ) I noticed 2 things after watching BBM last night on HBO. I don't know if someone already said these, so I apologize if I'm repeating. The first, when Ennis goes to see Jack's parents, a lot of posters said that Jack's mother almost pushed Ennis's shoulder to get him to see Jack's room. Notice that she does this after Jack's dad talks about that new guy coming with Jack and helping him with the ranch. You see Ennis's face change and THEN, she does it. You know that she is aware of the shirts, and wants Ennis to know that even though someone else may be in Jack's life, he loved and will always love Ennis. The second, when Ennis comes downstairs with the shirts, the mother goes to get him a bag. When she turns around, you see Ennis's face and he can hardly keep his composure. The mother grabs at her neck and then says about coming back to see them. I know, as a mother, the one thing you want for your children is to be loved. To be able to see it, must be amazing. So, when Jack's mother see's Ennis's eyes, she has the reaction any good mother would have. She knows that her son was loved totally and unconditionally and that's why she grabs at her throat. She was able to see it, knew that they were a part of each other and maybe, Ennis could keep Jack close to her. What does anyone else think?
