If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be? -- by fontainemoore

[TOoP/Bruce]

If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by fontainemoore      (Tue Jun 13 2006 12:51:07 )   
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Although this thread is intended for those who liked, loved, or found the movie valuable, I don't suppose there's much way to keep the others away--before the fact. I can try asking.

If you didn't like the movie or found it offensive, PLEASE do not respond.

Thank you.
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by jshelby-1     (Tue Jun 13 2006 12:55:52 )   
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I think the moral is honesty is the best policy - honesty to yourself and to others.

And of course, the cliche - tell people how you feel about them as much as you can because you never know when you might not have the chance.

"I wish I knew how to quit blaming Christians for everything homophobic!"
I think cliches are fine as morals   
  by fontainemoore      (Tue Jun 13 2006 13:28:28 )   
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They tend to be cliches in the first place because they relate to some kind of universal human understanding or "truth" (that 99.9% of our DNA which is the same). They're just not okay in dialogue (or description in fiction) because they bore the audience rather than keep them on their toes. It's probably more a matter of appropriateness. IOW, please don't fret about having used a cliche. It was quite appropriate in this instance, IMO.
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by princess_of_eurothia     (Fri Jun 16 2006 22:06:04 )   
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it;s really boring
That's hardly a moral   
  by fontainemoore      (Sat Jun 17 2006 08:51:36 )   
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I'm not sure why you bothered posting.
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by VerdiGuy     (Tue Jun 13 2006 13:00:14 )   
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I think Shakespeare said it best: "To thine own self be true."
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by clockworkgirl21      (Tue Jun 13 2006 13:05:32 )   
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Ditto.

Go to www.youthrights.com and fight for our rights, damn it!
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by karan-13      (Tue Jun 13 2006 13:37:22 )   
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I guess as the Tagline say`s `Love Is A Force Of Nature` , you can`t control who your gonna fall in love with , what you do once you find love , that is your decision .
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by featherlou     (Tue Jun 13 2006 13:53:42 )   
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Good question. I think the moral would be, "Don't let fear rule your life." Ennis lived his life in fear, denying himself happiness, and the thing he feared most happened anyway, so instead of a lifetime of memories with Jack to comfort him, he has a lifetime of regret to keep him warm at night. Damn, it's no wonder this movie made me sob like a child who just dropped his ice cream.
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by bsee13     (Thu Jun 22 2006 16:33:25 )   
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Feather
We are so much on the same page with this movie. Everybody I talked to about this movie i have said its about letting 'fear run or ruin your life'. That is one of the reason this movie can appeal to so many people.
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by wayne1932-1     (Tue Jun 13 2006 13:58:31 )   
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<<<you can`t control who your gonna fall in love with>>>

I disagree with this. I spent the first 29 years of my life with the reallization that my primary attraction was to other men. My homophobic environment would not let me be "true to mine own self." When I found my self becoming emotionally tied to a male friend I would back off. I lost several good friends because I knew contimuing would bring me grief, or result in their loss anyway. I just never felt particularly attracted to women.

I did get married and it has lasted for 43 years. Mostly they have been happy ones, but the "what ifs" still come back to haunt me more often than I would like. Brokeback Mountain opened up a lot of corners in my mind that I wish were still shut off.

But the movie to me opens up a question-- what is LOVE? Loving someone is not the same as being IN LOVE. I love my wife, but I know there are lots of things I can't be open with her about. I'm a classic example of --get married to a good woman and it's all gonna go away. WRONG!!!!!
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Morals are from the author to the viewer   
  by fontainemoore      (Tue Jun 13 2006 14:25:41 )   
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Characters are simply a vehicle to convey it. They're one among many. The moral is what the author/s (in this case the screenwriters) want the audience to take away from the work.

Personally, I agree with you. I think the movie's moral is to encourage people to examine what they've been taught they should do vs. what is right for them--what is truly inside their heart and soul.
Re: Morals are from the author to the viewer   
  by BannerHill     (Tue Jun 13 2006 14:46:53 )   
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Good Question

Guess what? There IS no moral.

This film tells a story. Period. People take from it what they will.

Some people might say to thine own self be true. Some people might say engage in gay sex and you are doomed. Some people might say 'get over your fears' Some people might say 'don't give in to your carnal desires because therin lies the devil".

The brilliant thing about this film is that many people care about the characters, and they all walk away with their own very personal experience.
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by featherlou     (Tue Jun 13 2006 16:32:13 )   
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I think another moral of the story is choices and consequences. I don't think anybody in the story was an innocent victim, with the possible exception of the two women. Ennis and Jack both made choices and had to live with the consequences, right or wrong.
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Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by kthstewart     (Thu Jun 15 2006 02:35:56 )   
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I don't think Lureen was that innocent. She was the predator who seduced Jack in the backseat of her car after they left the saloon. She called most of the shots between herself and Jack except his going to Wyoming two or three times a year while Ennis never came down to Texas.
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by karan-13      (Wed Jun 14 2006 06:51:45 )   
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I see what your saying wayne,
But `Being True To Mine Own Self`, is going with what you feel , what is right for you , not being able to control who you fall in love with , means whether you go with your feelings or not , you still have these said feelings inside you , so in effect you can`t control them.
You backed off from your male friend due to fear from your enviroment { understandably }, so you had feelings of love for him which you couldn`t control , you made the choice not to go with them and try and `Fit In` with what people around you expected , marriage with a woman.

I`m sorry your life went this way , and i can see why you did get married , i am glad your marriage has bought you some good times , even though in your regret you know deep inside your True Love and soulmate , would of been with another man , this is exactly what i mean , even now you cannot control your feelings , no one can , they always creep up to the surface.

I believe we all have that one special person { true love , soulmate, if you like } this person most of us never find , so we do settle for comfort , reliability sometimes, but i think with this one person you are completed in everyway , you think and feel as one , you bring out good and bad and yourselves in each other , there is nothing you can not say or do together.
I have nothing to back this up but i believe it , i have settled with things in my life , more probably as security for my children , i have at times walked away from feelings i regret not going with , it is very hard when they resurface , much love to you. xx kaz
Is this real or is it a myth?   
  by fontainemoore      (Wed Jun 14 2006 07:11:33 )   
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I've often wondered about it. Certainly it's something people long for but does it really exist outside of stories?

Personally, I think the experience of feeling complete occurs more from finding your passion in relation to the world and following it, whether that is singing, carpentry, becoming a Civil War buff, or whatever. But as soon as you depend on another person for a feeling for completeness it puts a terrible responsibility on them. That doesn't feel right to me, somehow.

Bottom line, I know that people long for a "soulmate" but perhaps it's merely nature's way of ensuring propogation of the species. Maybe the real soulmate is what's in your own heart.
Re: Is this real or is it a myth?   
  by featherlou     (Wed Jun 14 2006 07:50:48 )   
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Great points, fontainemoore. I think the idea of Hollywood love has caused a lot of harm to people. I don't believe in the idea of one true love for everyone - I think there is a spectrum of compatibility. There are lots of people in the world who fit my spectrum of compatibility; if I hadn't met my husband, who is really high on my spectrum, I would have met someone else who was as high, or maybe not quite as high, but still plenty high to share a happy life with. I hate to think of people turning away a good relationship because it doesn't match their idea of love developed from watching movies and television.
Writing that gave me some insight   
  by fontainemoore      (Wed Jun 14 2006 08:08:37 )   
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I just posted a new thread you might enjoy.

I liked your analogy of a spectrum of compatibility and believe it's the compatibility that's key. In a relationship you have to have common goals. After being divorced for 35 years, my ex-husband and I are still friendly and always have been. And we were married for less than a year. I think we've done much better than most people married a lot longer. I've always thought it foolish to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Keep the baby, just change the water!

We've always gotten along extremely well but had very different goals of what we wanted out of life. We just didn't have many common interests despite getting along so well. That's not a good basis for a long-term committed relationship.
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Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by samrim-1      (Tue Jun 13 2006 16:05:30 )   
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I love ole Brokeback from my heart. I've lived a lie for almost seventy years, and am left with little but a worshipful love of the Truth; how's that for a contradiction! Spending one's life worrying about what others might think is a pointless exercise. Forgive the spelling but, "Carpe Deum", seize the day! I'm not a total Robin Williams fan, but in this he was good! Best Wishes all

Sam
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Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by mandasi     (Tue Jun 13 2006 18:29:46 )   
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Good question, and nice posts that followed it.
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by revolution-hk     (Tue Jun 13 2006 18:39:11 )   
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Be honest to your heart, I think.

- Sorry for the poor grammar.
Your grammar is fine and your meaning is clear   
  by fontainemoore      (Tue Jun 13 2006 21:11:17 )   
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There are many ways your idea can be stated. Two of the most common would probably be, "Be true (or faithful) to your heart."

My French friends laugh because I speak it just like I speak English. Once I tried to say I was full from eating too much, but instead, said "I'm a pregnant cow!" Apparently, a "full" glass and a "full" person require totally different words! Needless to say, my friends got a big laugh out of that one!
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I'm a pregnant cow! LOL   
  by fontainemoore      (Tue Jun 13 2006 22:32:22 )   
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To say that "the glass if full" you'd say, "Le verre est plein." So, I said, "Je suis plein." However, plein, when related to animals (inlcuding human ones), refers to pregnant cows. To say I'm am full (from eating), according to my friends, the correct expression would be, "Je suis razazzier" which translates closer to "I am satiated."

Language does tend to disappear when not used, but interestingly, does seem to come back when you're in the country. Words you thought you'd forgotten pop into your mind.

People are also willing to help you when you get stuck--even the French! They just get annoyed when people don't make the effort and when they don't bother trying to use a decent accent. Sound is VERY important in French, as you probably know. During the four months I lived in Paris, I don't ever recall anyone being rude to me. And the French are supposed to be the rudest in Paris.

Interestingly, no one thought I was American. Most thought I was Dutch!
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UPDATED Tue Jun 13 2006 22:43:18
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I'm with Miss Marple   
  by fontainemoore      (Wed Jun 14 2006 06:56:29 )   
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Human nature is much the same everywhere. One finds both good and not so good people in every spot on earth, I have no doubt.

I've actually been to Holland but a long time ago--Amsterdam. While a charming city, I also found it a little bleak, climate-wise. Ah, I"m missing Europe just thinking about it. But I'm sure I'd be shocked at the changes I'd find.

What a long way we've come from discussing the moral of Brokeback Mountain. Mmmm... maybe not so far. It doesn't matter where you go or when. There will always be people who choose the socially-dictated (the "responsible") path over the calling of their heart. For good or bad.

If you take a look at all the Academy-nominated films this year, they all had to do with "bullying" by society and the way it affects individuals. And look at what's going on in our society these days. Velly intelesting!

[TOoP/Bruce]

Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by momoro     (Wed Jun 14 2006 08:40:40 )   
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This is a very rich, complex work of art, so I don't think it could be reduced to one single moral or message, but here are a couple of thoughts that the film leaves me with:

Carpe diem--seize the day! Gather ye rosebuds while ye may.

Love is the single most important thing in life. Honor and value love as it appears in your own life, and cultivate love within your own heart.

Nothing compares, I think, when thinking right, to a good friend.
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Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by featherlou     (Wed Jun 14 2006 12:46:31 )   
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Originally posted by momoro:
Love is the single most important thing in life.

I'm not sure I agree with you on this one - it seems too simplistic for this film.
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by daphne7661     (Wed Jun 14 2006 12:51:13 )   
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If you are lucky enough to find love, don't let your own fears or society's view of what love "should be" stop you from one of the greatest gifts you could receive in this life.

Period.
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by featherlou     (Wed Jun 14 2006 13:38:13 )   
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That's it, daphne - that's the message about love Annie and Ang gave us.
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by malina-5     (Thu Jun 15 2006 01:05:15 )   
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fountainemore, I was looking for your other thread - 'how has your life changed since BBM' - it was there a few days ago in the sampling on the front page, now it is nowhere. Did I hallucinate it? Maybe. But it was a wonderful and thought provoking question. Though this one is too.
I don't think there is A moral - not one big moral, like an Aesop's fable. But I do think there are morals, plural.
And one of them, seeing as this is told largely from the point of view of Ennis (the story even more than the movie) is simply that connecting with other people is important. Vital, even. When I think about Ennis in the scene where he's eating the pie in the diner alone, he's a man who's totally unconnected. That's what his interaction with Cassie in that scene illustrates, but it's not true just of him and Cassie. He's distanced himself from Jack, that's the big thing. I don't think he's seeing his daughter's very often, judging by the trailer scene - how it's in doubt whether he'll even come to Alma Jr.'s wedding. He's unconnected, because he's hiding his real self from everyone.
And after Jack dies, Ennis does begin to connect. He sees that it is important. The people you love won't always be here. You won't always get another chance. Connecting - while there is time - is vital. To me, that's what "Jack, I swear" means - I swear I will be different, I swear I will connect.
And that is my answer to the other question, too, 'how is your life different after BBM'. But I wouldn't say I'm there yet. It's not a fait accompli. But I will get there. I swear. The image of Ennis eating the pie alone haunts me..
I just bumped that thread for you!   
  by fontainemoore      (Sat Jun 17 2006 09:10:21 )   
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I really like your response! I don't think I would have seen that on my own unless you'd mentioned it but it explains, perfectly, what I'm going through myself. One of the reasons I liked Titanic so much was for similar reasons--Jack's "make each day count." I thought that was the primary moral of that film.

I am 60 and am recovering from breast cancer and heart failure that was caused by chemo. I'm now on disability and have no family. I spend most of my time alone. And I'm an extravert! The only social contacts I have are phone calls with my friend (of 30 years) who lives in another state, and church. (I go to a Unitarian Universalist church.) Sunday is my favorite day of the week because it's the only time I have to interact in any kind of meaningful way with people. All my other connections are "functional."

It's so easy to have an active social life when you're younger (I sure did) but much harder when you get older unless you have a family and are physically healthy. I know I need to do something about this because I've become like Ennis sitting alone, eating my pie. Unfortunately, I'm also getting used to it and am worried I'll sink into a hole and not be able to find my way out of it.

Any suggestions?
Re: I just bumped that thread for you!   
  by malina-5     (Mon Jun 19 2006 02:00:38 )   
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I'm going to have to see Titanic finally! I'm probably the only person in the world whose never seen it.
Now, this is not in any way meant to minimize what you were saying (and my heart goes out to you, truly) but you don't strike me as someone who is really like Ennis in the pie scene. I see you communicating, reaching out, making connections on these threads.. I think it's interesting and strange that the internet has become one of the important ways in which people make connections, but oh well, we're too far into it to question it.
Ennis had a wall around him of his own creation, it was almost palpable in that superbly acted scene. It took Jack's death to shock him out of it, a little. From the little I 'know' you from the threads, I don't feel that you have that wall. Of course, maybe we all do to varying extents, but it seems like you want to make connections, and I think that intention is the most important thing. That's the part that we control (I may not believe in God per se, but I am pretty fatalistic...we experience what we're 'meant to', somehow..)
I could share my story but then I would go on and on, and I'm already self-conscious about the length of some of my posts. In very brief: I'm 36 and I have a 14 year old daughter; my partner died when my daughter was a year old, and I haven't had any 'real' relationship since then, and as recently as a couple of months ago I remember saying to friend that I don't care if I never have another one...sex yes, but actually being in love, making the effort to really be with someone.. no. And BBM changed my thinking about that completely. And I don't expect to just magically meet someone now that I've decided I want to .. I know it happens when it's meant to, and being open to it is the main thing.. but just having that consciousness and that intention has changed the way I am with people. Every connection is important, every day is important. Before BBM, I was increasingly feeling like I couldn't be bothered...which, of course, is just a mask for other feelings.. that is the Ennis-pie-eating wall.
Ak, I just can't seem to write short posts.
Anyway, fountainmore, I am grateful for your presence and interaction on these threads and I wish you all good things..
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by megs_b_08     (Thu Jun 15 2006 10:46:04 )   
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Je pense que la morale de ce film ne sera pas obligé à juger n'importe qui parce qu'il mene à la controverse. L'amour est la sensation la plus puissante pour avoir et tout doit l'apprécier.

I do not speak good English. To understand use www.freetranslation.com.

Thank You
J'ai compris!   
  by fontainemoore      (Thu Jun 15 2006 10:52:10 )   
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Beaucoup des gens ont le meme sentiment que vous.
Re: J'ai compris!   
  by featherlou     (Thu Jun 15 2006 13:01:20 )   
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Here's a better idea, megs - why don't you run your posts through the translator before you post them? That way it only has to be translated once, instead of everyone reading it translating it.
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by estebanfr_87     (Thu Jun 15 2006 19:53:33 )   
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I think that the moral of this movie is that in a conservative society like this, you can't live being who you really are and you can't live being who you aren't, I mean, living a lie.

Excuse my english please.
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by Devil-Hobo     (Fri Jun 16 2006 10:47:26 )   
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i think the moral is (taken straight from the book/movie)

"if you cant fix it... you gotta stand it."
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Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by hattori_hanzo_steel     (Fri Jun 16 2006 18:47:49 )   
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If anything the movie is about the way in which the narrow-minded nature of many people, and hence society, can prevent true happiness from being achieved by two individuals.

HAd the society in which they live not been so damn prejudiced, the two characters would have been able to express their love as opposed to hiding it and hurting many others in the process.


Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by featherlou     (Fri Jun 16 2006 21:14:02 )   
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Originally posted by hattori_hanzo_steel:
...the movie is about the way in which the narrow-minded nature of many people, and hence society, can prevent true happiness from being achieved by two individuals.

HAd the society in which they live not been so damn prejudiced, the two characters would have been able to express their love as opposed to hiding it and hurting many others in the process.

I don't agree with this idea - you can't blame society for the choices Ennis and Jack made. Society's norms might have been the *reason* for some of the choices, but Ennis and Jack were still responsible for making those choices. Ennis' fear prevented them from being happy together, not society. His fear might have been totally justified; they might have started ranching together and been killed the next day. They also might have had 50 blissful years together before they both died in their sleep. He was afraid, and so never tried.
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by jean-claude_pierre     (Fri Jun 16 2006 21:45:10 )   
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Brokeback's moral is that no matter how clearly gay you are, some idiots will always say you're bisexual because you've had sex with a woman.
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by samrim-1      (Sat Jun 17 2006 12:11:15 )   
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I don't agree with this idea - you can't blame society for the choices Ennis and Jack made. Society's norms might have been the *reason* for some of the choices, but Ennis and Jack were still responsible for making those choices. Ennis' fear prevented them from being happy together, not society

Hello featherlou,

Sorry but I fear that talk of ranching misses the point. By the time Jack talked of the 'little cow and calf----sweet life' it was too late. They both had commitments from which the could not honourably walk away. Whether those commitments were (for Ennis at least) an excuse, is irrelevant. His family had to be provided for. He acknowledged that also in the motel scene! Best Wishes Sam
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by featherlou     (Sat Jun 17 2006 13:57:04 )   
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Hi samrim;
I think I see what you mean, but by choices Ennis made (and Jack, too), I meant right back to his decision to walk away from Jack after their summer together. Ennis was engaged then, but not married, and I think they were both deeply in love with each other at that point. They both chose to walk away - they could have done things differently (Ennis could have broken off his engagement, they could have moved on to a different ranch job together, etc.), but they didn't. They had reasons for what they did, but the choices still remained with them to make.

As you can probably tell, I'm a big supporter of personal responsibility.
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by samrim-1      (Sat Jun 17 2006 15:49:17 )   
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Hello featherlou

I guess we both agree that it would have made a much happier ending if the boys HAD chosen to go off together, but it would then just have been another love story wouldn't it?
I know from personal experience here in the North of England, that in 1966, and with no understanding of what my interest in my own sex meant, no one to talk to (like Ennis), I got engaged to a nice girl, because everyone did, or so it seemed! I soon knew instinctively that it was wrong for me and unfair to her; I managed to extricate myself (ourselves, really) and she married someone else and hopefully had a happier life than I could have given her. I know her daughter at work strangely, and she's just as I remember her mother a generation ago. I hope you will see that I didn't know it was wrong, if I thought anything it was that marrying would 'put me right' but of course it couldn't.

I doubt when the lads came down from ole Brokeback that they knew they were in love, (that awareness came four years later in that wonderful revelatory scene outside the apartment)so all Ennis could do was go back to Alma and continue there where he had left off. In Annie Proulx short story Ennis admitted that he shouldn't have let Jack go after Brokeback, but by then it was too late.

I should just reiterate that I don't think all that much of a 'personal responsibility' that allows one to desert one's innocent baby girls, and obviously Ennis didn't either; indeed had they gone away immediately after Brokeback it would have been another story wouldn't it? Best Wishes Sam
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by featherlou     (Sat Jun 17 2006 17:03:14 )   
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Yeah, that makes sense. Can you still call it a choice when you don't even think about any other alternatives? It seems to me like they chose to go their separate ways after their Summer of Love, but it also seems like a default, with neither of them thinking they could do anything else.
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by samrim-1      (Sun Jun 18 2006 16:39:45 )   
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You're absolutely right featherlou, the boys didn't know what else to do when they came down from the mountain, talk of choices implies a knowledge that ( like me on 1966) they just didn't have. TV certainly didn't talk about gays, the newspapers called 'us' lot very rude names, I daren't ask anyone questions, so had to go by the perceived rules. Thats why the film cracks me up; I never was as good to look at as Heath Ledger, but his character Ennis is me for so many years. Even now, 67 years old, I'm not officially 'out' to my family. I get conflicting 'messages' from them, so prefer this late in the game to let 'sleeping dogs lie'. At least now the've stopped making stupid remarks about how ' I'll find the right girl', which really p****d me off! Best Wishes, Sam, and by all means throw other questions at me if you wish, I love the way ole Brokeback has got us all really talking!
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by NeoLotus     (Tue Nov 28 2006 21:59:23 )   
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[I don't agree with this idea - you can't blame society for the choices Ennis and Jack made. Society's norms might have been the *reason* for some of the choices, but Ennis and Jack were still responsible for making those choices. Ennis' fear prevented them from being happy together, not society. ]

What was he afraid of?

Do you think their homosexual relationship would have been a problem in ancient Greece or Rome?

What of Romeo and Juliet? Why couldn't they be happy together?

There is no such thing as a no-context situation. All things are interconnected and interpenetrating when it comes to the choices one makes. No one lives in complete isolation from the values and mores of the greater society in which one lives. What you said above is like saying that a fish moves this way or that but it has nothing to do with the water, the tides, and the currents in which it swims. I hope this doesn't come across harsh. It's not meant to.

[TOoP/Bruce]

Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by wayne1932-1     (Sat Jun 17 2006 08:22:06 )   
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<<<<i think the moral is (taken straight from the book/movie)

"if you cant fix it... you gotta stand it."

>>>>>


I've taken this as my sig for many forums. But I've also added a preamble that reflects my total philosophy of life.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it, If you can't fix it...ya gotta stand it.
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by vfeebs     (Tue Dec 12 2006 21:49:46 )   
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Great one!!
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by msuamber     (Sat Jun 17 2006 09:34:02 )   
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Regret is a lonely friend.

but at the same time ...

It is better to have loved and lost than never loved at all.

At least Ennis knew who his one true love was, even if nothing ever went as planned and he lost it well before he was prepared.
Can you imagine what he felt when he got that postcard?   
  by fontainemoore      (Sat Jun 17 2006 13:28:57 )   
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The one impersonally marked "deceased." I can almost feel that rock tumbling down my throat and crashing into my stomach. Yet, from a filmmaking standpoint it was impossible to show that reaction without being trite and resorting to tired cliches like buckling legs, or the postcard fluttering to the ground in slow motion.

Now that I think of it, the movie was probably more emotionally powerful because Lee didn't resort to those types of devices, nor, I'm guessing, did the screenwriters.
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by sand_lizard_man     (Mon Jun 19 2006 02:14:29 )   
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I think trying to give this movie a moral would undermine the overal essence of the film. However, I will try:

"The ones you love can hurt you most, but Love will heal the wounds."






Stella D'Oro breakfast treats. Snack Time anytime.
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Difference between the 'story' and the 'movie'   
  by fontainemoore      (Tue Jun 20 2006 11:51:21 )   
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I didn't make the distinction clear. I meant the story that was conveyed by the movie and what the writer hoped the audience would take away from it. Fictional stories always have a moral, although what the writer intends and the audience gets can be very different things.

Most people focused on the moral of the story. However, you chose the other path and commented on the moral of the movie as a work of art. That separates the filmmakers from the writers. Interesting!
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by aorourke55     (Tue Jun 20 2006 11:58:41 )   
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Desire is the root of all suffering.
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by sand_lizard_man     (Tue Jun 20 2006 13:32:02 )   
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Good one!

But....what if you're a masocist?






Stella D'Oro breakfast treats. Snack Time anytime.
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by explorer-13     (Wed Jun 21 2006 07:58:34 )   
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Moral: "We all can suffer at the hands of societal ignorance and bigotry."

This movie has nothing but victims. No winners.
Does it advocate any action?   
  by fontainemoore      (Wed Jun 21 2006 08:48:44 )   
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Usually, a moral implies action, if only indirectly, that should be taken in order to better deal with defeating phenomenon--not just reinforce what most people already know in one way or another. Do you think there was some implied advice?
Re: Does it advocate any action?   
  by explorer-13     (Thu Jun 22 2006 03:46:56 )   
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I wouldn't say advice is implied. I think the movie (story) simply seeks to inform, to articulate a particular point of view, to be thought-provoking. Perhaps "moral" is the wrong term here.
Re: Does it advocate any action?   
  by animaniac1     (Thu Jun 22 2006 05:23:48 )   
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The moral is... " Always follow your heart "
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by bkoganbing      (Thu Jun 22 2006 08:58:37 )   
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The moral of the story is Follow your heart above all.

Bureaucrats need love


I agree   
  by fontainemoore      (Thu Jun 22 2006 10:09:21 )   
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That's the main message of the story. If you don't follow your heart, this is the kind of life that awaits you.

I don't think following your heart is only related to romance since people are more complex and need more than a happy relationship to reach their potential. But if the movie had strayed from this central theme, it probably wouldn't have had the impact it did. What do you think?
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Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by featherlou     (Thu Jun 22 2006 13:26:41 )   
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Originally posted by notbond007:
The moral is....

Make sure you have plenty of vaseline when you are out on the range!!!

That's not the moral - that's just a life lesson.
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by bkoganbing      (Thu Jun 22 2006 20:40:14 )   
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You know I did a review of the Jeanette MacDonald/Nelson Eddy film Maytime here
and strange as it may seem, following your heart was the moral of that film
as well.

Jeanette loves Nelson, but marries John Barrymore to advance here career and
tragedy results.

Isn't that what we have in Brokeback Mountain?

Bureaucrats need love


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Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by BannerHill     (Tue Aug 1 2006 13:52:21 )   
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I think the moral is that you can go through life emotionally shut down if you want to. Eventually, though, you have to confront your own true self and pay the price. Being shut down just don't work.
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Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by taj_e     (Tue Aug 1 2006 14:41:54 )   
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I wouldn't ask myself if BBM had moral or was trying to portray any (I'm not saying it is a bad thread either)
BBM cries out the theme of Moulin Rouge 'The greatest thing you'll ever learn is to love and be loved in return'
This is what Ennis had learnt IMHO in the end, and I see the same
I may not agree with their relationship, but I can't deny there's such love between the two there and honestly I would rather that they communicated the love, that is admitting such and to work things out 'rationally' ie. if there are suppose to continue or accept the fact that it is going no where

And thanks for sharing wayne
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  by LauraGigs     (Thu Sep 7 2006 23:48:23 )   
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so it's not deleted
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Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by ricmalic     (Wed Oct 4 2006 18:08:19 )   
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The moral: I'd say that the choices we make and the choices made for us don't mean the ending is always going to be happy.

And before I get flak from various and sundry, I want to say that I do NOT consider being gay a "choice"
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Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by Count_Back_From_Three     (Thu Oct 5 2006 08:52:47 )   
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I think the moral is "Love rules all but isn't always convenient"
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bump   
  by northernplains     (Tue Nov 28 2006 15:34:25 )   
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bump
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by sammyjouk2     (Tue Nov 28 2006 16:11:38 )   
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making a gay film wins awards
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by Dancing_Bear     (Tue Nov 28 2006 16:19:25 )   
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Not a moral but here's a quote that has comforted me during some dark hours...

"What we have once enjoyed, we can never lose; all that we love deeply becomes a part of us." (Helen Keller)

I always keep hoping Ennis catches some of that feeling at the end.
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bump   
  by northernplains     (Tue Dec 12 2006 16:39:01 )   
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bump
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by vfeebs     (Tue Dec 12 2006 21:46:44 )   
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The movie is about the folly of letting fear run your life. Ennis can never get back what he may have had - it's gone forever. Fear (albeit rational) kept him from Jack. The moral, then, is to find the courage to live authentically. Just my felling on it.
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by pianocellolove     (Tue Dec 12 2006 22:13:23 )   
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Hi vfeebs, I like what you said here.
To overcome fear to me is the moral as well. Seems as if we could get past our fears and move towards our desires and goals, many of us would enjoy much happiness and success but too often we live in fear.

The moral to me is to take a chance, push past the fear and do what you have to do to make your life truly happy and content whether someone else agreed with it or not. When we try to please people, we lose out but when we are truly free to search our own hearts and go after what we know is right, we never falter or go wrong. I read this topic earlier and had much to say (still do) and I couldn't get the words to come out right.

The moral then, is to find the courage to live authentically.


Yup. Trusting what is going on inside of us. The answers can always be found there perhaps if we can only get past the fear and learn to trust ourselves and no one else.
bump   
  by northernplains     (Tue Dec 26 2006 10:49:23 )   
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bump
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  by northernplains     2 days ago (Tue Jan 9 2007 05:32:53 )   
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bump
Re: If Brokeback had a moral, what would it be?   
  by Clyde-B     2 days ago (Tue Jan 9 2007 06:38:07 )   
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Ennis's mantra was "If you can't fix it you've got to stand it."

but the moral is "If you really want it you've got to risk it."

[Artiste]

Don't be too afraid too love gays, even gay to gay men, and straights!! ??

[nagsheadsea412]

I think BBM brought us all to our knees..it was such a gut reaction of a love that defines any gender falling in love....I know the Christians of America voted Bush in twice because he was anti abortion and of course was a God loving soul...bullocks....I grew up in the Lutheran faith and this pulled me beyond anything I ever expected.  The moral was a noble depiction of the type of glorification that defies any holy roller holler as being rather pathetic and exalts Ennis and Jack to their own kind of paradise/

[ifyoucantfixit]

       I always thought the moral of Brokeback Mountain was "mind your own business.  Then everyone will be
much happier."
       Don't ever let yourself down. You can never fix it.  You will have to live with the results of all
your decisions.  The good and the bad.

[nagsheadsea412]

Well, yes, that's a pretty broad statement that can be applied to almost everything.

[ifyoucantfixit]

     i didnt know it had to be something unusual. 

[nagsheadsea412]

Noone seemed much happier after Brokeback by minding their business.....if you never let yourself down, then it is fixable...arranging, adapting...And furthur, you don't have to live with all the results of your decisions because as each decade comes along, we change hopefully leaving the garbage behind