Author Topic: Twist family Bible study: the Gospel of Mark  (Read 156070 times)

Offline Wayne

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Re: Twist family Bible study: the Gospel of Mark
« Reply #200 on: December 19, 2007, 03:12:14 pm »
Mkay so Mark 13. Walking out of the temple in Jerusalem, Jesus predicts that "not one stone will be left upon another." This actually happened in AD 70 when Jerusalem was completely destroyed by Roman armies and the Jews were led out to slavery.

It's not altogether clear whether Jesus was making a supernatural prediction, since the event had probably already occurred at approximately the time when the book of Mark was written down.

This is one of the eschatological bits (though not the biggest one) that gets pointed to in discussions of the "second coming." I don't put too much stock in this particular one because it has already happened, and had already happened even when the book was written.
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

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Offline Wayne

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Re: Twist family Bible study: the Gospel of Mark
« Reply #201 on: December 19, 2007, 03:30:37 pm »
An interesting linguistic insight on the "abomination of desolation."

Many scholars (Hoffmann, Nestle, Bevan, and others) suggest that the term "abomination of desolation" in Hebrew (šiqqǔṣ šômēm), would have been easily recognized as a play on the usual appellation for Jupiter which was "Baal Shamem" ("lord of heaven").

The event that the prophet Daniel was referring to (in the quotation that Jesus was using) was the placement in 167 BC of an altar to Zeus (Jupiter) in the Second Temple in Jerusalem by the Greek ruler Antiochus Epiphanes. He sacrificed pigs on it.

Jesus (or at least the writer of the gospel of Mark) was recycling the same phrase to refer to the 2nd destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in AD 70. Notice Jesus says the abomination will be "standing where he ought not to be," which sounds consistent with the placement of a statue of Jupiter ("shomem" or "shamem"), which is exactly what happened in 167 BC (though not in 70 AD). So that's what Mark meant by "let the reader understand."

Several passages in the gospels and Paul's letters suggest that the early Christians expected Jesus to return at that time to establish his kingdom. That's what "this generation standing here right now shall not pass away before these events come to pass" sounded like to them at the time.
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don

Offline Wayne

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Re: Twist family Bible study: the Gospel of Mark
« Reply #202 on: December 19, 2007, 03:39:04 pm »
By the way my userpic is an image of the planet Jupiter as photographed from a satellite orbiting Mars.

I chose it several months ago. It is not intended to represent the abomination of desolation.    ;) :laugh:
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don

injest

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Re: Twist family Bible study: the Gospel of Mark
« Reply #203 on: December 20, 2007, 01:24:11 am »
I have learned a few new words lately. One is irenic: conducive to peace

from Luke, Judaism, and the Scholars: Critical Approaches to Luke-Acts By Joseph B. Tyson:

"Canonical Luke is a neutralizing collection of Pauline and Judaistic discourses and narratives. The Pauline elements appear as the basis of the gospel and the Judaistic as the interpolations and additions. The result is an irenic gospel."

that made my head hurt...

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Twist family Bible study: the Gospel of Mark
« Reply #204 on: December 20, 2007, 05:24:27 pm »
I've gone and got myself all excited about this Lazarus Hypothesis. So even though this is more explicitly relevant to the gospel of John than the gospel of Mark, I want to go ahead and post some relevant websites.

Some of these sites come from a traditional Christian perspective and some from other perspectives, but I think they make a convincing case for two amazing conclusions about Lazarus, the man who Jesus has just raised from the dead:

1. He is the "disciple whom Jesus loved" in the gospel of John

2. He is the author of the gospel of John

To these I would add that the relationship described between Jesus and this disciple is physical. We'll see more of that in John.

I hate to seem narrow-minded, but I think I'm stickin' with John as John, the Beloved Disciple.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Wayne

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Re: Twist family Bible study: the Gospel of Mark
« Reply #205 on: December 20, 2007, 07:10:28 pm »
 :)  No problem - like so many things, it's open to interpretation.

By the way remember though the difference between apostles and disciples. There were exactly 12 apostles, but many followers of Jesus were called disciples. So the beloved disciple is not necessarily one of the 12 apostles.

Also the "book of John" itself does not state who the author was. It came to be ascribed to John only later by tradition.
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don

Offline Wayne

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Re: Twist family Bible study: the Gospel of Mark
« Reply #206 on: December 20, 2007, 07:13:22 pm »
Well, I've had a hard day. My cat Mister Mew died yesterday afternoon... no illness, just sleeping on the couch.

I love him so much. He will be part of me forever.
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don

Offline Wayne

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Re: Twist family Bible study: the Gospel of Mark
« Reply #207 on: December 20, 2007, 07:27:38 pm »
In Mark 14, Jesus is back at Bethany at the home of Simon the Leper. A woman brings an alabaster box of expensive perfume, pure nard, breaks the box and pours the perfume on Jesus's head.

The gospel of John tells us that Jesus had come to Bethany to be with Lazarus, and this woman is Mary the sister of Lazarus. Remember that Bethany is their home town.

The gospel of Luke says that this woman was a sinner, and she poured the perfume on his feet instead of his head, and wiped it with her hair and her tears.  (My tears are with Mister Mew today...) Luke also says that this dinner was at the home of a Pharisee.
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don

Offline Wayne

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Re: Twist family Bible study: the Gospel of Mark
« Reply #208 on: December 20, 2007, 07:40:07 pm »
The next day Jesus tells the disciples that arrangements have been made for Passover supper at an upper room in the city. Again we might wonder who made the arrangements. Could it have been the Beloved Disciple?

At dinner, Jesus tells the twelve apostles that one of them will betray him. Many of them ask, "surely not I?"  He tells them that the one who will betray him is the one who shares bread with him at a certain moment. Mark doesn't say whether Jesus told everyone it was Judas, but John says that he told only the beloved disciple, and the rest of the apostles did not know.

The betrayer of course turns out to be Judas Iscariot. Incidentally, if I understand correctly, Judas is the only one of the twelve apostles who was from Judea rather than Galilee.
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don

Offline Wayne

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Re: Twist family Bible study: the Gospel of Mark
« Reply #209 on: December 20, 2007, 07:58:40 pm »
Jesus tells them the time has come. This is the last wine he will drink until the kingdom of God arrives.

He tells Peter that Peter will deny knowing him 3 times before morning. Peter is aghast.

He takes the disciples to the garden of Gethsemane. Peter, John, and James fall asleep while Jesus prays. Judas arrives with the authorities carrying swords and clubs. All the disciples flee, except for one:

"A young man was following Him, wearing nothing but a linen sheet over his naked body; and they seized him. But he pulled free of the linen sheet and escaped naked."

As we noted above, this sounds reminiscent of the young man of Secret Mark, and of the Beloved Disciple, the author of the gospel of John, whether that is the Apostle John, or the disciple Lazarus, or someone else. The writer of the gospel of John had details about Jesus's prayers in Gethsemane as well as the arrest and subsequent events that none of the other gospels include.
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don