Author Topic: How Did Jack Die?  (Read 41096 times)

Offline JT

  • Brokeback Mountain Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 248
Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #40 on: July 22, 2006, 02:09:30 pm »
I still think it was the bashing.  He could be driving when the wheel blew up.  That happens often in back roads.  Then when he removes the rim, with a tire iron of course, but before he repairs the tire, he had the worst stroke of luck ever.  Someome (perhaps killer clowns...LOL) who knew his nature came along with a tire iron, or maybe Jack's own tire iron, and beat him to death.  Then report the "accident" hours later to the police to make themselves seem innocent.  And if there were no eyewitnesses it would seem like an accident.  Maybe were taking this subject a little too seriously.

Offline ekeby

  • Sr. Ranch Hand
  • ***
  • Posts: 98
Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #41 on: July 24, 2006, 11:23:15 pm »
I'm late to this discussion, but have to add my two cents. In the movie (more than from the story) I got the distinct impression that what Ennis thinks happened is what actually happened. Lureen's sing-song, rote telling of Jack's end is what gives Ennis that idea. When she hears that Jack and Ennis herded sheep on Brokeback back in '63, we feel that she now understands that Ennis Del Mar was Jack's main man. And we feel--or at least I did--that Ennis knows that she knows. They are talking in code to one another, and they both know it.
I complain too much. That teacher don't like me. Now it's your turn.

Offline welliwont

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 805
Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2006, 03:29:11 pm »

Bumping for more votes.   ;)
Then the clouds opened up and God said, "I hate you, Alfafa."

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,564
  • Those were the days, Alberta 2007.
Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2006, 01:54:28 pm »
From the bits of cut sceens I have seen in the trailer, etc, the story I have developed is that Jack did have a flat tire, and Randall gave him a ride to a garage and dropped him off, there was some display of affection shown and the mechanics picked up on it. Jack rode with them back to the truck and was lynched there and the tire was purposly exploded to cover the crime.

In the story, L.D. Newson dies before Jack does, and Lureen inherits the business, Jack getting some vague managerial title.

Once I saw a post on the yahoo board that the split rims Proulx would be refering to were no longer manufactured after about the late 60's and the last truck we saw him in was later than that. 

That's my two cents.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2006, 02:02:15 pm by shakestheground »
"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

Scott6373

  • Guest
Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2006, 02:46:03 pm »
If you have the DVD, play that scene in stop frame.  It is Jake in the scene, so as far as the film is concerned it WAS a hate crime, because that's what Ang decided, and we can't really change that.  The only point of contention, is whether the scene actually happened or was it an imagined scene by Ennis.

Offline Rayn

  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 520
  • I'm also on FaceBook under Rayn Roberts
Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2006, 03:25:05 am »
Yes, if one only watches the movie, there can be some doubt about how Jack died, but what came first, the Story or the Movie?  The movie is based nearly 90% on the actual short story and the story leaves little doubt.  Ennis believes Jack was murdered, but he doesn't really know and no one ever will except the people who found Jack after the accident or murdered him, if he was indeed murdered.

From the story:

Jack's Daddy:

"....He had some half-baked idea the two a you was goin a come up here, build a log cabin and help me run this ranch and bring it up.  Then, this spring he's got another one's goin a come up here with him and build a place and help run the ranch, some ranch neighbor a his from down in Texas.  He's goin a split up with his wife and come back here.  So he says.  But like most a Jack's ideas it never come to pass."

Narative:

"So now he (Ennis) knew it had been the tire iron."

Narative:  End of the story:

"There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it you've got to stand it."


Comment: From the book, it's clear to me at least, that Ennis doesn't know how Jack died, but believes it was "the tired iron" / murder, but like I say, no one but the people who found Jack dead from an accident or found him murdered or the murderers themselves, if he was murdered, will ever know. 

I believe Lureen.  It was a sad accident.  I really hate the gnawing ache the rises in my stomach when I think he was brutally murdered.  It's sad enough that he died so suddenly leaving Ennis without him, sad enough for me.  I believe Lureen.  But belief, being what it is...often of the imagination, often not based on facts or reality... is a personal choice. 

I respect Ennis' choice to believe what he believes.  I respect anyone else's choice too.  That's part of the beauty of fiction, isn't it...

Rayn


« Last Edit: October 30, 2006, 09:33:06 am by Rayn »

Offline Rayn

  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 520
  • I'm also on FaceBook under Rayn Roberts
Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2006, 03:36:32 am »
PS: In the book, when Lureen is telling Ennis about how the accident happened, it reads, "No (thought Ennis), he thought, they got him with the tire iron."  page 279

Then on page 280

"The huge sadness of the northern plains rolled down on him.  He didn't know which way it was, the tire iron or a real accident.  Under the wind drone he heard steel slamming off bone, the hollow chatter of a settling tire rim."

Comment:

There is a lot in the book that isn't in the movie and for me, to get the whole picture, I have to consider both, because the question of how Jack really died burned in my brain for days before the book arrived and I read the story.

I hope this helps and again, I say, I respect whatever conclusion others come too.  That's ok.  We all have our own way of seeing.

Rayn

Offline JT

  • Brokeback Mountain Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 248
Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #47 on: October 24, 2006, 02:35:04 pm »
I still believe he was murdered but recently I had a dream that he committed suicide.  Since Jack is full of life and seem so positive, I thought it was ridiculous that he would take his own life.  But could lost of hope driven him to do so?  What do you guys think?

Offline ednbarby

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,586
Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #48 on: October 24, 2006, 02:57:29 pm »
I still believe he was murdered but recently I had a dream that he committed suicide.  Since Jack is full of life and seem so positive, I thought it was ridiculous that he would take his own life.  But could lost of hope driven him to do so?  What do you guys think?

Clinical depression can certainly drive one to suicide, and what clinical depression is in my experience is the utter loss of all hope.  Doesn't matter how positive, vibrant, and full of life one is - once that sets in, the only thing many believe will end the pain of that loss is death.

My husband had a good pilot friend he played tennis with from time to time.  He shot himself to death in his bedroom about a year ago.  He was going through a divorce and had some financial problems and issues with a new girlfriend.  But by all other accounts, he had a pretty good life, was handsome and athletic and vigorous - all of it.  When a mutual friend called to say he had, with the police, found him, I was at first shocked.  But then I thought of little things Ed said about him from time to time - "Well, he drinks a lot."  (Sound familiar?)  And "He says he's been having trouble sleeping lately."  I even asked him once if he'd broached the subject with him that he might be depressed and need to see someone.  He said he did and he chewed him out for it.  "No shrink's telling me there's something wrong with my head.  Nothing I can't fix myself with more exercise and sleep."  Thank you, Tom Cruise.

Anyway, yes, I think it's possible.  I certainly see Jack as reaching a point where he really didn't give a s*** about much anymore.  Lureen's saying "He drank a lot" nearly broke my heart in two on actually my second viewing.  I don't see him as deliberately, purposefully killing himself, but I do see him as not caring whether he lived or died at some point.
No more beans!

Offline JT

  • Brokeback Mountain Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 248
Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #49 on: October 24, 2006, 03:24:22 pm »
Clinical depression can certainly drive one to suicide, and what clinical depression is in my experience is the utter loss of all hope.  Doesn't matter how positive, vibrant, and full of life one is - once that sets in, the only thing many believe will end the pain of that loss is death.

My husband had a good pilot friend he played tennis with from time to time.  He shot himself to death in his bedroom about a year ago.  He was going through a divorce and had some financial problems and issues with a new girlfriend.  But by all other accounts, he had a pretty good life, was handsome and athletic and vigorous - all of it.  When a mutual friend called to say he had, with the police, found him, I was at first shocked.  But then I thought of little things Ed said about him from time to time - "Well, he drinks a lot."  (Sound familiar?)  And "He says he's been having trouble sleeping lately."  I even asked him once if he'd broached the subject with him that he might be depressed and need to see someone.  He said he did and he chewed him out for it.  "No shrink's telling me there's something wrong with my head.  Nothing I can't fix myself with more exercise and sleep."  Thank you, Tom Cruise.

Anyway, yes, I think it's possible.  I certainly see Jack as reaching a point where he really didn't give a s*** about much anymore.  Lureen's saying "He drank a lot" nearly broke my heart in two on actually my second viewing.  I don't see him as deliberately, purposefully killing himself, but I do see him as not caring whether he lived or died at some point.

Thanks for sharing you imput.  I'm sorry about your husband's friend.  Very sad and very unfortunate. Sounds too much like our Jack. 

Besides murder and accident, I think suicide might be a possible cause of Jack's death.  "He drinks a lot" that's one bad sign of depression.  Also, I always wonder why he tells his wife that he wanted to be cremated and ashes scattered on Brokeback Mountain.  Thought he was a bit young to tell his wife about his wake, unless he knows his end is near.  I don't know.  Do people leave death wishes at that age?  Laureen said, "He used to say..." so we know it's not really a writted will.