The ORIGINAL 1000+ Posts Club

[David]

'People really don't like kids on planes'
USA Today webstory

Airline passengers don't like kids on flights. That much became apparent after last month's report that AirTran booted a family off a Fort Myers-Boston flight after the family's 3-year-old girl threw a temper tantrum and refused to take her seat before takeoff.

"What happened next boggles the mind," writes Dan Schlossberg of ConsumerAffairs.com. The incident touched off a nationwide discussion on the subject, with the topic dominating the news from the Web to network TV. But while there was discussion, there wasn't much debate –- nearly everyone came down on the side of the airline. "AirTran got 14,000 calls and emails endorsing their action," Schlossberg writes. "Fourteen-thousand! If George W. Bush had won Florida by that many votes seven years ago, Al Gore supporters could stop singing Hail to the Thief," he adds.

Political insinuations aside, Shlossberg's point is that fliers really, really don't seem to like kids on flights. In fact, many seem downright hostile to the idea of sharing their cabin space with someone else's children. "The bottom line is that most airline passengers pack little patience for little kids," Schlossberg writes. "Syndicated columnist Eileen Ogintz, whose Taking the Kids column has a website of the same name, said she received emails from passengers who wanted to ban all children under age 5," Schlossberg says. He also talked to Worcester Telegram writer Dianne Williamson, who broke the story. She says she also heard from a large number of readers -- mostly from those who agreed with AirTran's decision. "I guess people really don't like kids on planes," she concedes.

Well, I must admit there have been many times where small kids have constantly kicked the back of my seat to the point where I was ready to stuff the brat in an overhead compartment.    I travel with Bose noise cancelling headphones now, so that helps cut down on the noise from the screamers too.

~David

[MaineWriter]

People also don't like kids in restaurants, and I have heard people say children under 5 should be banned from them, too. That begs the question though: if a child never goes on a plane or to a restaurant until a certain age, then who will they know how to behave when they are finally allowed to?

Lance flew on a plane for the first time at 11 months. We've taken both our children to restaurants all their lives. Never once have we been asked to leave, never once have our children screamed, yelled, thrown a tantrum or ruined someone else's flying or dining experience. It's called parenting folks. If you don't know how to take care of your kids and have them behave appropriately, then the remediation needs to occur at the parenting, not the banning, level.

My 2 cents.

[David In Indy]

From Wikipedia...

Leet or Leetspeak (often written in Leet as 1337 or 13375p34k, or 13375p33|<) is a writing system used primarily on the Internet, particularly on IRC but nowadays also in online games such as Counter-Strike, RuneScape, Ragnarok Online, and Team Fortress. The term itself is derived from the word Elite, meaning “better than the rest,” and generally has the same meaning when referring to the hacking skills of another person.

Leet can be defined as the perturbation or modification of written text. For example, the term leet itself is often written l33t, or 1337, and many other variations.[1] Such perturbations are frequently referred to as “Leetspeak”. In addition to modification of standard language, new colloquialisms have been added to the parlance. It is also important to note that Leet itself is not solely based upon one language or character set. Greek, Russian, Chinese, and other languages have been subjected to the Leet variety. As such, while it may be referred to as a “cipher,” a “dialect,” or a “language,” Leet does not fit squarely into any of these categories.

Thanks Leslie! 

I keep forgetting about Wikipedia. I need to start using it more. At least we now know Bettermostians are not the only ones surprised when they see "leet" appear in their  post count. 

[David]

With so many single parents now, it seems unlikely that kids will behave better any time sooner.

The big threat by mom was "you'd better behave or you'll deal with your father when he gets home from work".

What do single Moms say now?    "Be good or I won't let you use my playstation tonight" 

[opinionista]

People also don't like kids in restaurants, and I have heard people say children under 5 should be banned from them, too. That begs the question though: if a child never goes on a plane or to a restaurant until a certain age, then who will they know how to behave when they are finally allowed to?

Lance flew on a plane for the first time at 11 months. We've taken both our children to restaurants all their lives. Never once have we been asked to leave, never once have our children screamed, yelled, thrown a tantrum or ruined someone else's flying or dining experience. It's called parenting folks. If you don't know how to take care of your kids and have them behave appropriately, then the remediation needs to occur at the parenting, not the banning, level.

My 2 cents.

I don't know. It is a complex matter. Even though I'm not a parent, I think it is unfair to blame children's behavior entirely on the parent. There are other factors to consider for example teachers, friends, TV, etc. Children have their own personalities and make their own decisions which sometimes are hard to control. I have travelled quite a bit and most of the time the children on the plane tend to behave. The ones who misbehave the most and even kick on the back on my seat are adults. In fact, on my flight back to Madrid last January, there was a 40 somthing year old woman behind me who wouldn't stop kicking the back of my seat. I had to ask her to quit it several times.

[serious crayons]

Lance flew on a plane for the first time at 11 months. We've taken both our children to restaurants all their lives. Never once have we been asked to leave, never once have our children screamed, yelled, thrown a tantrum or ruined someone else's flying or dining experience. It's called parenting folks. If you don't know how to take care of your kids and have them behave appropriately, then the remediation needs to occur at the parenting, not the banning, level.

My 2 cents.

Here's mine:

If someone took his first airplane ride at 16, he would not spend the flight crying loudly, running up and down the aisles, kicking the seat in front of him, kneeling backwards on his seat to stare at the strangers in the next row and throwing up on the floor because he had never been taught how to behave properly on a plane. Same for a 16-year-old in a restaurant for the first time. She might use the wrong fork (a mistake that can easily be corrected by simply pointing it out), but won't hide under the tablecloth or run around the room or throw food. Behavioral changes as people grow up often have less to do with training than with maturity.

Adults in new situations do not revert to preschool behaviors. They usually observe other adults and model their behavior accordingly. Many small children are not able to do this.

So ideally, the parents introduce their kids to those places only when they are developmentally ready. That's why you rarely see small children in really fancy restaurants.  And why, when I do see little kids misbehaving in fancy restaurants, I blame their parents -- not for failing to train them properly but for taking them somewhere they're not ready to be. The trouble with airplanes is that, unlike fancy restaurants, small children sometimes have to use them even when they're not mature enough to behave properly.

As the parent of two very spirited, active, rambunctious kids, I get huffy when someone blames their behavior on faulty parenting. I have a friend whose daughter will sit at restaurant table surrounded by adults for literally hours, quietly drawing, never a peep out of her. No amount of lecturing, training, threatening or punishing would change my kids into that kind of kid. As a result, my sons have visited fewer nice restaurants than my friend's daughter.

Natali, your post came in as I was writing this. I agree with everything you said.

[MaineWriter]

Katherine...I agree with you. And I think a big point that needs to be realized is the difference between "have to" and "want to"...as in, some times small children have to fly on planes. I have been in situations where my small children had to be in a fancy restaurant (when they were small) because there was no other option available.

As a parent, in both cases, I planned ahead: for the plane trip when Lance was 11 months, we had snacks, pacifiers, toys, and dramamine. It works wonders in making a child sleep on a long flight. For restaurants we've brought coloring books, small toys, etc.

And sometimes, you have to admit to yourself that the child is tired enough or cranky enough that going out is not in the best interest of anybody. Ask me about the time I ate hotdogs from the 7-11 in Stockholm and passed up the chance to eat a marvelous dinner in a Swedish restaurant because my children were not fit for public consumption! Sigh...

I am not saying it is only the parent, but the parent is the one making the decision, which I think is your point, too.

L

[serious crayons]

Katherine...I agree with you. And I think a big point that needs to be realized is the difference between "have to" and "want to"...as in, some times small children have to fly on planes. I have been in situations where my small children had to be in a fancy restaurant (when they were small) because there was no other option available.

As a parent, in both cases, I planned ahead: for the plane trip when Lance was 11 months, we had snacks, pacifiers, toys, and dramamine. It works wonders in making a child sleep on a long flight. For restaurants we've brought coloring books, small toys, etc.

And sometimes, you have to admit to yourself that the child is tired enough or cranky enough that going out is not in the best interest of anybody. Ask me about the time I ate hotdogs from the 7-11 in Stockholm and passed up the chance to eat a marvelous dinner in a Swedish restaurant because my children were not fit for public consumption! Sigh...

OK, Leslie, I'm glad we agree!    BTW, I had this brilliant idea when my kids were little to produce ready-made boxes that people could take for kids on planes or in restaurants, containing little toys and snacks and puzzles. They could be geared to age and maybe gender. If I'd figured out a way to get them manufactured and marketed, I'd be rich right now!

But, like most of my ideas, it never come to pass ...

[David]

My Aunt used to have a better idea.   When a car load of chatty kids became too unbearable, she'd pass out grapes and tell the kids to have a contest to see who could keep the grape in their mouth the longest without biting it.     LOL.

At work, we have one or two girls who just talk way too much.   I have often joked that I am going to bring in Salt Water Taffy for them to suck on to shut them up.     

[MaineWriter]

OK, Leslie, I'm glad we agree!    BTW, I had this brilliant idea when my kids were little to produce ready-made boxes that people could take for kids on planes or in restaurants, containing little toys and snacks and puzzles. They could be geared to age and maybe gender. If I'd figured out a way to get them manufactured and marketed, I'd be rich right now!

But, like most of my ideas, it never come to pass ...

You were too busy being a mom to start the box business! But it is a great idea...

L