Atheists: Come out, come out, wherever you are

[Impish]

And believers should close their eyes and plug their ears and sing lalalalalalalalala whenever any such logical questions are put to them because Satan is trying to dissuade them from the 'true' faith.

About your entire reply, delalluvia: well said!

About the part I quoted:  One of the recurring themes in Harris' writings and lectures is that faith is a conversation stopper.  That's his biggest beef:  that we can't even talk to believers rationally....  for faith means an unwillingness to even consider the possibility of changing one's mind from dialogue or new evidence. 

I always shudder when I see Christians talk about the "brainwashing" that occurs in other "New Age" religions.  At least adults who join so-called cults did so after thinking about the belief system they're joining.  No "brainwashing" could ever be as complete as that of raising a child to believe such nonsense, and then tell them they'll be damned if they even try to think things through rationally.  "Don't try to learn anything from another point of view," they're told (the sin of eating from the Tree of Knowledge), and strong faith -- meaning believing something against all evidence -- is considered holy.

I die  a little inside every time I think about it.

[Lynne]

Faith being a conversation stopper is key here to my own experiences.  No matter how innocently I introduce a subject that would be a good one to discuss in terms of faith and reason, conversations stray quickly from rational thought to speculation.  I'd say that it is near impossible for people who hold differing opinions.  It's sad because it limits the growth that would be possible with people when open and truly encompassing dialog is permitted.

It's one of the reasons I've shied away from debates of that sort in years past...I've reopened some of that since BBM to mixed results.  My idea was to see the 'covering' that people do so they will 'fit in' and try to address the covering of non-religion where I saw it in my life.  Not entirely successful to be sure.    As far as openness goes, that part is working well enough.   But I have not achieved any real dialaogue yet.  And that is partially my fault because I try to avoid controversy and I haven't yet been able to frame my thoughts into words that do not sound judging or confrontational.  Impy - I may need a workshop on that skill

[Impish]

Impy - I may need a workshop on that skill

"Impy."  I like that!

[isabelle]

I thought this might be of interest to you all; as I have stated before, I am interest in Buddhism, but I am just in a phase of observation right now; so I wanted to find out what Buddhism said of homosexuality. I found this article. It is long, but very enjoyable, and more and more so as you go along, so it is well worth reading through!
Enjoy the comment on St Paul being" highly neurotic" (he is the one who condemned - male - homosexuality in the Bible) among other gems!

http://www.buddhanet.net/homosexu.htm

[Impish]

I practiced Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism for 23 years, and was very involved in its lay organization during that time.  I left when the lay organization evolved into a cult, worshipping its "President," Daisaku Ikeda.  The priesthood excommunicated Ikeda in the early 90's, and so now that organization (SGI) claims to be its own sect of Buddhism.  Stay away from SGI (trust me on this).  Nichiren Shoshu remains a valid choice, and is worth investigating.

As a whole, Buddhism has a lot to offer, but one has to be careful because like all religions, there are many different kinds.  Some sects are atheistic -- as Nichiren Shoshu is -- and others believe that the Buddha resides in a heaven much like the christian one.  Some of it's ancient art even show angels with halos.  I'm unfamiliar with Theravada Buddhism, the sect of the article you referenced.  It's name leads me to believe it's based in India. 

FYI: The Dalai Lama (sp?) of Tibetan Buddsim has taken a public stance that supports gay people unequivocally.

Many atheist scholars, like Sam Harris,  recognize the good Buddhism can do; and certainly is the least offensive of the world's five major religions. 

[isabelle]

Thanks, Impish. I'd never heard of SGI, or maybe only the name, but I'll watch out for them.

Glad to know the Dalai Lama supports gays. I have read that in the US, some Buddhist groups (don't know what to call them) celebrate gay unions.

[Impish]

In Austin Texas, a local organization of Atheists had a booth at Austin's Gay Pride Festival.  It touches me that a bunch of straight people would take the time and trouble to do this.

Here's a report on their Pride activites.  It includes the text of the brochure they were handing out, titled "Why Atheists Care About Gay Rights". You'll probably have to scroll down past the pictures to see it. 

http://www.atheist-community.org/scrapbooks/2006pride.php

[Shuggy]

I practiced Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism for 23 years, and was very involved in its lay organization during that time.  I left when the lay organization evolved into a cult, worshipping its "President," Daisaku Ikeda.  The priesthood excommunicated Ikeda in the early 90's, and so now that organization (SGI) claims to be its own sect of Buddhism.  Stay away from SGI (trust me on this).  Nichiren Shoshu remains a valid choice, and is worth investigating.

I investigated Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism briefly and wasn't very impressed. Maybe the local devotees weren't a good example. Lovely people, but
1. One almost worshipped her gohonsen (cupboard/altar in which scrolls containing the mantra are kept) - didn't seem a good example of non-attachment to me.
2. Others gabbled the Japanese prayer (?) from a book of phonetic Japanese with little understanding of or even interest in its meaning.
I didn't get much past that to what they believe or how it should make you behave. It seemed almost to be a Pentecostal (ObBBM!) kind of Buddhism.

But I can still intone "Nam Yoho Renje Kyo"....

[Impish]

But I can still intone "Nam Yoho Renje Kyo"....

Actually, it's

Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

and pronounced "Nahm Mee-oh-ho Ren-gay Kee-oh"  (that last one is pretty much one syllable)

 

[Shuggy]

Actually, it's

Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

and pronounced "Nahm Mee-oh-ho Ren-gay Kee-oh"  (that last one is pretty much one syllable)

 

I bow to you on the spelling, but our devotees definitely say "nah-myoh-ho, ren-djeh-kyo" Japanese speakers might laugh at all of us. Or maybe our devotees learnt from speakers from different parts of Japan.