Author Topic: A Love Born From Steel - Ongoing Discussion  (Read 76474 times)

Offline MaineWriter

  • Bettermost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,044
  • Stay the course...
    • Bristlecone Pine Press
Re: A Love Born From Steel - Ongoing Discussion
« Reply #480 on: January 02, 2007, 09:47:02 pm »
And Marie, since you mentioned the bath....

Jack let himself go limp, feeling like a rag doll as Ennis maneuvered the washcloth down his arms, across his chest, over his neck, and behind his ears. “Ya act like a pro at this,” he mumbled, as Ennis picked up the handheld shower and wet his hair.

“I used t’wash Jenny and Junior,” he said, massaging shampoo into Jack’s scalp. “It was fun givin’ them a bath,” he said, he mind flitting back to the happy memory.

Jack smiled at him. “I hope ya weren’t dressed like that,” he said with a laugh, looking at naked Ennis kneeling next to him on the floor.

“I wasn’t, but it would’ve made sense,” he said. “I always ended up soaked.” He picked up the handheld shower again. “Lean yer head back, I don’t want t’get soap in yer eyes.”

Jack looked up at Ennis. “Nobody’s ever washed my hair before,” he said.

“Nobody?” said Ennis, surprised.

“Well, nobody who’s ever loved me,” said Jack.

“Well then, babe,” said Ennis, leaning in for a kiss. “I’m glad t’be the first.”


Ahhh....

L
Taming Groomzilla<-- support equality for same-sex marriage in Maine by clicking this link!

Offline mariez

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,085
  • "you bet"
Re: A Love Born From Steel - Ongoing Discussion
« Reply #481 on: January 03, 2007, 11:54:58 pm »

Jack looked up at Ennis. “Nobody’s ever washed my hair before,” he said.

“Nobody?” said Ennis, surprised.

“Well, nobody who’s ever loved me,” said Jack.

“Well then, babe,” said Ennis, leaning in for a kiss. “I’m glad t’be the first.” [/i]

Ahhh....

L


Ahhh..... is right!!  I love having my hair washed!   :)


On to Chapter 20 -

After so much sadness and angst, so nice to have things lighten up!  Ennis and Jack bed shopping - who thought we'd ever see that day?   :) And in keeping with the idea that there are no coincidences . . Ray is their salesman!  Once again so proud of Ennis - Jack's love and their marriage has given him such self-confidence and peace!

“Ray?” said Jack, the color slowly coming back to his face.

The salesman nodded. “Yes, Jack, it’s me, Ray. Hi. Long time, no see.”

The three of them stood there awkwardly for a second, then somewhere, from deep inside of Ennis, a thought, and a joke, suddenly emerged. “Ray? You still eat grilled cheese-tuna-toms?”

Ray looked incredulous, then burst out laughing. Jack turned to Ennis, his jaw hanging down, almost speechless, then, “Fuck, Ennis, whatchya sayin’?”


 :laugh: :laugh: Well, if that wasn't the perfect way to diffuse an awkward moment, I don't know what was!  And ol' Ray was a pretty good salesman, too!

I like that Ennis was secure enough to start this conversation - and I'm so happy he got to hear this:

Ennis looked at Jack as if he still didn’t believe him. “Never fucked? Really?”

“Really. Ray absolutely didn’t want to…fuck me, I mean. He said it was okay for me to fuck him but…it’s not what’s most natural for me, En. The times I have done it with you…” he paused, thinking about it, trying to find the best way to put his thoughts into words. “With you, it’s like, I need to be inside you, because I love you so much, I want to be a part of you. And sometimes, that’s the only way to truly satisfy that desire. It doesn’t happen very often, just once in a while…but when it happens, that’s what I need.” He smiled at Ennis. “Does that make sense?”

Ennis nodded back. “Yeah, I think so.”

Jack continued. “With Ray, I never loved him, so I guess that desire was never there…the thing that pushed me to that place.”


Yes, it certainly does make sense, Jack!!   :)

Renovating the bathroom? Wow, they are ambitious! 

Norm Crocker's death was a surprise - but I'd be less than honest if I said I got all choked up about it:

“Jack, I’m thinkin’ of Tom, and his philosophy. ‘There are no coincidences…’ Did we make this happen?”


No, Ennis - you didn't make it happen.  It's called karma. 

The birth of Tom and Janet's baby girl - what a perfect way to end the chapter - and begin the next stage of Ennis and Jack's life together!   :)  Really lovely, Leslie!

Thanks as always, Marie
The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

Offline mariez

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,085
  • "you bet"
Re: A Love Born From Steel - Ongoing Discussion
« Reply #482 on: January 07, 2007, 10:48:04 am »
Hi again -

Oh, good!  An entire Interlude for the bed christening!! 

Just beautiful -  I loved all the candles - so romantic.  And we have toys in our new nightstand drawers - yay!  ;D  But I loved that they only wanted and needed themselves for the christening. 

Eventually Jack settled down, the trembling ceased, and Ennis could tell from the hitch in his breathing he was falling asleep. “Before ya go, lover,” he whispered, “look at the moon.” Jack turned and looked at the silvery light illuminating the room. “It’s full, like it was our first very first night on Brokeback and then a month later, our first time in the tent,” he said. “I will always love full moons.”

“And I will always love you,” said Jack, his voice thick, his eyes heavy lidded and no longer able to resist the forces of sleep.

“And I you,” said Ennis, pulling Jack in close, falling asleep with his lips buried in his lover’s hair, his arms holding him in an embrace that would never end, the moon shining across them in their new bed where they planned to sleep together, every night, for the rest of their lives.


Sigh.  I am such a sap - but God I love happy, romantic, schmoopy endings!!!

And the Epilogues -

I am so impressed with how much thought and and all the details you put into these Epilogues (Minutia is Good!  LOL!!!) Just great.

Bobby a vet!  Love it.  I know I'm biased - but I like to give Ennis credit for this because he helped Bobby overcome his fear of horses!  :)  Lureen is right - it does take a special gift to be a vet.  It's nice to see that Lureen is happy, too. 

Junior a librarian - how perfect!  I really relate to Junior and her love of books - before I decided on law school, I considered getting a Masters in Library Science, too!  And I really hope Junior writes that book - that's a story that needs to be told! 

Thank God Jenny has her dad (and Jack) in her life!  How sad that Alma has cut herself off from her daughter.  I just can't wrap my mind around it - how can a mother do that? 

I just love picturing Jack and Ennis surrounded by children and grandchildren on the Lazy L!  And also being a part of a wonderful community.  Really a dream come true.  I'm so glad Jack's mom got to know and love Ennis - I like Jack's philosophy of mothers - if our children are happy, we're happy! 

HaHa!  Kissing as a therapy to quit smoking!   :laugh:  That would make a great infomercial!    :laugh:

Jack and Ennis online!  Who would have ever thought!  Jack enthusiastically forwarding all those jokes - that is so funny - I think we've all been on the receiving end of that!! 

Jack and Ennis going to see the movie about "two gay cowboys!"  Another stroke of genius.   And yeah, I like your J&E's ending better (and I wasn't too fond of that mustache, either, Jack!  LOL! )

“Yeah,” said Jack, “but I bet the audience wanted more. We were hot. That reunion kiss—shit! It got me goin’ in the theater.”

Ennis smiled at him. “I remember that kiss. It was hot. But guess what?” he said, as he leaned in.

“What?” whispered Jack, feeling Ennis’s breath like fire on his face.

“This one’s gonna be hotter.”


Sigh.

I sure do wish I could have been at J&E's 30th Anniversary Party!  I like just typing that!

Leslie, thank you so much for your brilliant story.  I would be somewhat bereft - except that I know I can now start reading "Through the Veil of Time!"   :)

Yay!  I'm really looking forward to it! 

Thanks again - Marie
The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

Offline MaineWriter

  • Bettermost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,044
  • Stay the course...
    • Bristlecone Pine Press
Re: A Love Born From Steel - Ongoing Discussion
« Reply #483 on: January 07, 2007, 04:04:57 pm »
Hey Marie,

Thanks for those great quotes and comments. I so appreciate it!

This came up in relation to another story, but in case you are wondering...

If you are standing at the foot of the bed, Ennis's side is on the left, closer to the windows, and Jack is on the right, closer to the door.

There is a blanket chest at the foot of the bed.

Any other minutia you would like to know?

L
Taming Groomzilla<-- support equality for same-sex marriage in Maine by clicking this link!

Offline mariez

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,085
  • "you bet"
Re: A Love Born From Steel - Ongoing Discussion
« Reply #484 on: January 09, 2007, 01:54:44 pm »
Hi Leslie!

You know for some reason, I always do picture Ennis on the left - don't know why that is!   :)

And I am, for the moment, satisfied in the my quest for bits of minutia!   But I am sure that will change. LOL!

I've started TTVOT - and am, of course, loving it! 

Question for you:  Because you are still writing that story - how should I comment?  Will it be easier and less confusing for you on your LJ?  Don't want to upset the flow of your thread here!  Of course, I'm finding myself reading late at night at a good pace - I may just finish the entire story before I know it!

Thanks again - Marie
The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

Offline MaineWriter

  • Bettermost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,044
  • Stay the course...
    • Bristlecone Pine Press
Re: A Love Born From Steel - Ongoing Discussion
« Reply #485 on: January 09, 2007, 02:23:12 pm »
Hi Marie,

Glad you are loving TTVOT.

There is a thread for the story here. That's the best place to comment, I think, since I am here at bettermost all the time.

I would love to get more discussion going...it will be me back in the groove for writing. I am a little bit stalled right now. LOL

L
Taming Groomzilla<-- support equality for same-sex marriage in Maine by clicking this link!

Offline Kerry

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,076
  • ^ In pursuit of Captain Moonlite - 5 Sept 2009
    • Google Profile
Re: A Love Born From Steel - Ongoing Discussion
« Reply #486 on: January 24, 2007, 09:26:46 pm »
Thank you, Leslie, for your beautiful story, “A Love Born from Steel.” I’ve just finished reading the final appendices (though haven’t managed to make my way through all the subsequent pages of messages as yet!)

It was the second fanfic I read here at BetterMost, which would make it the second fanfic I have ever read in my life! Initially, I was somewhat reluctant to embrace fanfic. I was carrying an enormous amount of emotional baggage about BBM and Jack and Ennis (like most of us here, I guess) and I suppose I was afraid that I was somehow being “unfaithful” (I’m searching for the right word here) by not sticking with the original.

That all changed some time last Christmas when I noticed a thread, where someone called LazyLJack was sending e-mails to BetterMostians from his ranch in Texas. Well, I can’t begin to tell you how my heart skipped a beat when I read those e-mails and realised it really was “the” Jack. I was so moved, I sent a sad, weepy little message to Jack, telling him how much I loved him and Ennis, and how happy I was to hear of their new life together in Texas (bear in mind that I had not heard of you or “A Love Born from Steel” at that time). Nothing could have prepared me for what happened next. I received a response from Jack. He told me he loved me, too. He said that he and Ennis looked back on Brokeback with fondness, but added that they much preferred the big comfy bed they presently had, which was much nicer than sleeping in a tent that smelt of cat piss or worse! Well, I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry, so I did both! Receiving that message from Jack was a very therapeutic, cathartic experience for me. It helped me to begin the healing process. There’s light at the end of the tunnel, but I’m not completely out of the woods just yet. I was telling this story to a friend (BBM fan, though maybe not quite to the extent that I am!) last weekend and spontaneously started to cry half-way through the telling. Big sobs. He comforted me as best he could and I progressed through the moment. Came right out of left-field. Floored me. It was just the thought that Jack was still alive and living happily with Ennis in Texas that did it.

My experience with LazyLJack prompted me to consider that fanfic may hold the key to progressing forward, emotionally, post-BBM, for me. So I went over to the fanfic section and started reading a story there, which I am still following (it’s frightfully good!). I then started reading “A Love Born from Steel.”

Because I love your story so much, I wanted to share my following thoughts with you.

Tom’s sexuality. As a gay man, I was somewhat confused by a straight man being excited by gay male sexuality. It was one of the very few aspects of the plot that didn’t ring true for me. I have known many lovely gay-friendly heterosexual men in my life, and I’m absolutely certain that none of them would be in any way at all interested in what I did in bed! I know many straight men are very turned-on by lesbianism, but it doesn’t transfer over to what guys do together. It started me wondering if Tom was, perhaps, simply a tawdrid little voyeur, who would peek at anyone having sex, irrespective of gender. I soon realised that this wasn’t the case. Ultimately, I was left wishing that this aspect of the plot had simply been avoided and that Tom had just been painted as one of those sweet-natured, gay-friendly straight men that we’ve all met in our lives.

The obnoxious banker. I thought he was painted as a somewhat too overly melodramatic character, right down to his name - Mr Crock-o-Shit! I do appreciate that your intention here was to create an evil foil to Jack & Ennis’ innate goodness. As such, I would have liked you to have created an even more despicable end for this awful man. How more awful than death, you’re asking? Well I’ve been thinking about that! I would have liked him to have been arrested as a child molester of little girls, or exposed as a wife beater and run out of town. I prefer the former option, which would instil in people’s minds the statistical fact that most child molestation is committed by straight men on underage girls (not by gay men on underage boys). In the majority of cases, the offender is known to the victim. This would certainly be in keeping with the banker’s obnoxiously melodramatic persona.

The furniture salesman. We all know that life is full of coincidences. We’re confronted with them all the time, and we readily accept them as an integral part of life. However, having said that, I remember some advice I was once given years ago, when I was toying with the idea of writing the Great Australian Novel (yeah, feel free, laugh – I certainly know I am! LOL). I was advised to never use coincidence as a literary device when writing fiction. It was explained to me that the reader just won’t buy it. And this is how I felt about Jack running into his ex-lover, in the furniture store. I would have preferred that his character was left out entirely.

Gay sex/lovemaking. Congratulations on a job well done. You certainly had me all hot and bothered on more than one occasion. While we’re on this delicate subject, however, can I ask you a personal question? You didn’t hesitate to describe in full detail the most intimate aspects of Jack and Ennis’ lovemaking, right down to describing the number of fingers Jack inserted into Ennis’ rectum (it was two). This makes for very authentically written literature – except for one thing. I am presently reading two other fanfic stories here at BetterMost, also written by female authors, and there is one thing that is always left out. It is never included, even though it is one of the most intimate acts two men can share together. Let me give you a hint as to what it is. Have you ever heard of cunnilingus? Well, there’s a man-on-man equivalent. Again, drawing on my own personal experience, if ever there was a type of man who would like to just lie back and have his lover eat him out, it is Ennis. And Jack is just the sort of guy who would enjoy doing this to Ennis. In the vernacular, it is referred to as “rimming.” It is a most profoundly intimate act, especially when performed languidly and lovingly by two men who are deeply in love. For some reason unknown to me (and probably a lot of your gay male readers), however, female fanfic authors seems to steer clear of it completely.

Leslie, as already stated, I loved “A Love Born from Steel” and was sorry when it ended. I could have quite happily gone-on  reading diary-like reports from Texas for the rest of my days (maybe that’s what’s in the other pages at the thread – I guess I’d better get busy reading them all!). My apologies if any of what I’ve raised has already been raised and discussed. I came in late.

Your devoted fan,

Kerry   :)
γνῶθι σεαυτόν

Offline MaineWriter

  • Bettermost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,044
  • Stay the course...
    • Bristlecone Pine Press
Re: A Love Born From Steel - Ongoing Discussion
« Reply #487 on: January 25, 2007, 08:02:28 am »
Wow, Kerry, thank you so much for that wonderful comment! I really appreciate it and I am thrilled you enjoyed my story so much!

Your comments are very thoughtful...and made me think. Let me try to address some of the issues you raised.

Straight men and gay sex You are not the first person who told me that Tom would not have been turned on by the sight of Jack and Ennis kissing. In fact, I have been told emphatically that "straight men do not like gay sex. They think it's gross." Well, my resident expert (my husband) tells me otherwise. I had him read that scene when this came up and he thought it was believeable. He also doesn't read slash but he has been known to "skim for sex" and has asked me to point out some hot passages in various stories. Now, maybe he's an oddball but I don't think so. I think the sweeping generalization that straight men do not like gay sex is a little too sweeping.

Norm Crocker Yes, maybe I was a little too soap opera-ish with him and maybe killing him with the train was a little too over-the-top, but we are all allowed our little slip-ups, right? LOL. More than one person told me that Jack and Ennis would have likely been turned down for the loan without the whole moral character issue. I thought it was important, though, that Ennis be confronted with some anti-gay prejudice, very soon after accepting his own homosexuality, and I wanted it to happen in a non-physically violent way. Thus, Norm, even if he was a little bit unrealistic.

Ray Maybe it was a coincidence, but believe me, small town rural America can be a pretty small place. I didn't think it was at all unusual for Jack to run into his old boyfriend at the furniture store. In fact, I am surprised it didn't happen sooner. I wonder where he and Lureen bought those lovely purple chairs, anyway? LOL

Seriously, Ray was important to me, and important to Ennis. A major theme of the story, obviously, was Ennis coming to grips with his sexuality. He needed to realize he was homosexual, not "jacksexual." To do this, he needed to have some sort of experiences with other gay men. Many fanfic authors have made this experience be that Ennis has sex with another man...I adamantly refused to go down that path. ("My" Ennis is completely faithful to Jack.) The main gay character, of course, is Hal, and he is the one who offered Ennis the most in terms of learning and understanding about himself. Pete showed up as "the ghost of the future"...showing Ennis what might have become of him if he had refused Jack again. The third character was Ray.  I thought that Ennis needed to meet someone closer to his age that he could use to mirror his experiences. If you recall, it was after buying the bed that Jack and Ennis had the "different types of queers" conversation. It was Ray that prompted that and Jack's intimate experiences with him that allowed him to answer Ennis's questions. So, even if Ray was a bit of a coincidence, I thought he was important to the story.

Gay Sex Thank you for your compliments! Since this is my first foray into writing sex (of any type...it is my first foray into writing fiction, if you want to know the truth!) I am glad it came out as realistic and believeable. I enjoy writing it which may sound like a strange thing to say, but it is fun.

As for rimming, I actually did include a bit of that, but if you read the story on fanfiction.net, you have missed it. "Interlude II: An Interlude to Christen The Bed" only got posted on LiveJournal. So, Kerry, an extra bonus for you...here's the link:

http://lazylfarm.livejournal.com/17369.html

As for reading more about the Lazy L...I am 62,000 words into "Through The Veil Of Time" which picks up with Jack and Ennis at the Lazy L Farm in May of 2006. I started it in response to a prompt to "do something with Jack and Ennis in the present." I am having alot of fun with this story. There is a thread for it here on the fanfic board, but it has spoilers so you might not want to look at it. The story begins here (on Live Journal)

http://lazylfarm.livejournal.com/20162.html or on fanfiction.net, it is here:

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3023375/1/

I do hope you'll read and comment. People's comments are fuel for my writing and what keeps me going. They are very, very important to me...I read every one, even if I don't respond to each on individually.

Thanks again for being a devoted fan. It means more to me than you know.

Hugs and love,

Leslie
xo

Taming Groomzilla<-- support equality for same-sex marriage in Maine by clicking this link!

Offline MaineWriter

  • Bettermost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,044
  • Stay the course...
    • Bristlecone Pine Press
Re: A Love Born From Steel - Ongoing Discussion
« Reply #488 on: February 11, 2007, 10:16:07 am »
I don't know if anyone pays attention to the ads that show up on the right side of the screen but I happen to glance at them now and then. Imagine my surprise when this morning, there was an ad for Circle E Western Boots!

http://www.circleewestern.com/

If we all remember, Ennis and Jack..."I'm brandin' ya, cowboy. Circle E Ranch."

LOL

Leslie
Taming Groomzilla<-- support equality for same-sex marriage in Maine by clicking this link!

Offline Artiste

  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • ********
  • Posts: 15,998
Re: A Love Born From Steel - Ongoing Discussion
« Reply #489 on: January 27, 2008, 06:42:57 pm »
When I lived on my friend's estate, I saw daily two emus that he had.

Such delighful big, big birds. I forgot if someone rode one! Anyone have pic of a person ridding one? There are races with emus, I seem to remember.

One thing I recalled was picking up some of their feathers. There are always two feathers together as one... and I wonder why?? Anyone knows?

Hugs!!