Author Topic: Dave Cullen's new book  (Read 22467 times)

Offline Monika

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Re: Dave Cullen's new book - Oprah show cancelled
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2009, 08:10:40 pm »
I agree. To use the word evil when it comes to human beings is way too easy. Much easier than dealing with complex, difficult issues for example.

no, blaming yourself is easier. It is called codependency. you think that if you would just try a little harder everyone would be nice.

it is harder to be a grownup. to require people take responsibility for their OWN actions.


Over simplifying things is to be "grown-up"? Well, not in my book. Sorry.

injest

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Re: Dave Cullen's new book - Oprah show cancelled
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2009, 08:14:00 pm »
http://www.gwu.edu/~ccps/etzioni/B388.html

http://acon.bravehost.com/pedophilia.html

http://www.jaapl.org/cgi/reprint/37/1/129.pdf

there are literally thousands of websites and organizations that state that pedophilia is not curable. regardless of what the anti age limit people say.

injest

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Re: Dave Cullen's new book - Oprah show cancelled
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2009, 08:14:54 pm »
Over simplifying things is to be "grown-up"? Well, not in my book. Sorry.

good I am glad we agree. Blaming yourself for other peoples misbehaviour is simplistic.


injest

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Re: Dave Cullen's new book - Oprah show cancelled
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2009, 08:29:38 pm »
If you see trying to understand a problem, rather than dismissing it as "evil", as "blaming yourself", that´s your problem and not mine.

If you cant' see that treating people as if you are in control of them is condescending and robs them of any chance of fulfilling their own potential, that's YOUR problem..and unfortunately we ALL have to live with the results.

Offline Monika

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Re: Dave Cullen's new book - Oprah show cancelled
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2009, 08:32:27 pm »
If you see trying to understand a problem, rather than dismissing it as "evil", as "blaming yourself", that´s your problem and not mine.

If you cant' see that treating people as if you are in control of them is condescending and robs them of any chance of fulfilling their own potential, that's YOUR problem..and unfortunately we ALL have to live with the results.


Whut? I can´t answer that argument because I haven´t written any of the things you are arguing against. O0

injest

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Re: Dave Cullen's new book - Oprah show cancelled
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2009, 08:48:51 pm »
Whut? I can´t answer that argument because I haven´t written any of the things you are arguing against.

I know...it is a startling thing isn't it? for someone to call a spade a spade. YOUR theory that if ONLY we tried to understand better then people wouldn't be mean!

I know it is hard..but think about this for a minute...if that were true..then wouldn't it be OUR fault they acted bad? we shoulda been more understanding.

we could change 'victim' counseling...start in 'domestic abuse' clinics...tell the women if they would be more understanding those nice misunderstood men wouldnt hit them. It's not the MEN'S fault. They are helpless before society's cruel refusal to see their pain...


Offline Monika

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Re: Dave Cullen's new book - Oprah show cancelled
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2009, 09:07:09 pm »
Whut? I can´t answer that argument because I haven´t written any of the things you are arguing against.

I know...it is a startling thing isn't it? for someone to call a spade a spade. YOUR theory that if ONLY we tried to understand better then people wouldn't be mean!

I know it is hard..but think about this for a minute...if that were true..then wouldn't it be OUR fault they acted bad? we shoulda been more understanding.

we could change 'victim' counseling...start in 'domestic abuse' clinics...tell the women if they would be more understanding those nice misunderstood men wouldnt hit them. It's not the MEN'S fault. They are helpless before society's cruel refusal to see their pain...




The point in trying to understand is that it will help us to prevent similar things from happening again. You don´t fix a problem by standing around, pointing at it and calling it bad or evil. You fix it by looking closer, trying to understand what triggered it.
What would make the world better is if we could prevent certain things from happening at all, not just too stand around the victim afterwards and point at the culprit and shout "evil". By that time the damage has already been done.

Pointing at people and calling them "evil" doesn´t help with anything. I believe in the justice system though, but that has nothing to do with pointing out people as being good or evil. IMO, the justice system should be abovet that kind of religious mumbo jumbo.

injest

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Re: Dave Cullen's new book - Oprah show cancelled
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2009, 09:22:22 pm »
The point in trying to understand is that it will help us to prevent similar things from happening again. You don´t fix a problem by standing around, pointing at it and calling it bad or evil. You fix it by looking closer, trying to understand what triggered it.
What would make the world better is if we could prevent certain things from happening at all, not just too stand around the victim afterwards and point at the culprit and shout "evil". By that time the damage has already been done.

Pointing at people and calling them "evil" doesn´t help with anything. I believe in the justice system though, but that has nothing to do with pointing out people as being good or evil. IMO, the justice system should be abovet that kind of religious mumbo jumbo.


no, evil is NOT religious...and you dont' 'just stand around'...that is YOUR position...stand around and stare at your navel "what have I done to make this person attack that person"

My position is to say "this person is bad, he needs to be removed from society so he won't hurt people that are just trying to live their lives"

this whole 'there is no good or bad' mess is why we are in the state we are in. It is YOUR philosophy that allowed those boys to kill those 13. MY philosophy would have had those EVIL boys in lockup where they couldn't hurt anyone but themselves. They should have been locked up and treated there...not left free to ravage other childrens lives.

Offline Monika

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Re: Dave Cullen's new book - Oprah show cancelled
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2009, 09:33:33 pm »

this whole 'there is no good or bad' mess is why we are in the state we are in. It is YOUR philosophy that allowed those boys to kill those 13. MY philosophy would have had those EVIL boys in lockup where they couldn't hurt anyone but themselves. They should have been locked up and treated there...not left free to ravage other childrens lives.
My philosophy is that if, perhaps, someone would have listened to those boys or paid a little more attention to them, they wouldn't have killed those 13 at all. 


Exactly how could you have known in advance that those two boys would do what they did? Or do you think you alone can decide which people are evil or not before they have actually done the deed?
Through measuring their scull sizes? Or based on what type of noses they have, perhaps?

I think the word "evil" is loaded with religious meaning, and that's why I don't like it.

There are other words I prefer.

I do think the society has a collective responability. That is not the same thing as saying that the individual has none.

injest

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Re: Dave Cullen's new book - Oprah show cancelled
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2009, 09:42:46 pm »
are you familiar with the situation at all??

they had great parents. they weren't bullied. They had been in trouble before for hurting other people.

their parents DID try to help them. They were in the system.