More Tales of the Ignorant and the Hypocritical

[ednbarby]

I do give him credit for acknowledging that I had clearly won the argument.  A lesser Republican (is that redundant?) would never have done that.

And we actually went on to continue to discuss movies for the rest of the evening - he calls himself a movie buff - and I wowed him with my ability to name that movie in two notes.  At one point he goes, "What's that one with Sean Connery and Mark Harmon?..."  I go, "The Presidio."  Another time he goes, "What's that one guy's name who was in "The Breakfast Club" and "St. Elmo's Fire"?..."  I go, "Judd Nelson."  He goes, "Jesus.  You're Good."  At that point, Suzanne was back at the table and said, "I told ya she'd kick your ass when it comes to movies."  I'm hoping the fact that he was impressed with my knowledge (and accordingly, not put off by my lack of a life in the real world) makes him continue to think about his misconceptions about Brokeback, gay men in general, or, at the very least, makes him think twice before he postulates that lame argument again.

[Front-Ranger]

Way to go Barb! Spreading the word, one at a time. Can I schedule a session with U and my husband??!

[starboardlight]

Barb, I'm so proud of you. You seriously kicked his butt. And seriously, unless you're watching some Christian film, when are movies suppose to teach anything? At best they're suppose to make you think and question your reality. The argument that this film teaches promiscuity and breaking up of marriage is a stupid one. And I'm happy that you were there to call the guy on that. His willingness to admit his losing the point is a sign that he might actually be worth saving. You should see if you can challenge him to see the film and still hold those same opinions he has.

[newyearsday]

Great idea Starbie,

and great job Barb. I commend you! I fear I would not fare so well, in that scenario....afraid I've lost too many arguments to my lawyer-like family members to have much confidence when it comes to that sort of thing, but you're right on with the Out of Africa references, and being a big fan of that movie, I can see myself using that same argument if I have to. Thanks for doing your majorly good brokie deed of the day.

[Lynne]

Barb - I just wanted to chime in here with my own 'Well, done!'.  I'm very proud of you.

I think we're sisters in that one of my very big post-BBM goals is to be much more vocal and articulate about my own beliefs - to not be silent when I know wrong is being accomplished, if that makes any sense.

I know it can sometime seem like a drop in an ocean, but I think every single time we can call people on their bigotry, to maybe, maybe make them stop and think, just a little bit, it is a huge victory in the grand scheme of things.  And these things have ripples and those ripples can be very powerful.  And to manage it with grace and intelligence, that just makes it perfect!

((((Barb!!))))

Again, well done!

-Lynne

[Shuggy]

He goes, "Yeah, but they should have just stayed single."  (Just like a Republican - leave your teethmarks in that dead argument.)

I like that!

[ednbarby]

Thanks, Shuggy, and everyone, for all those lovely unsolicited compliments. 

Starbie, that's an excellent point, too, and one I wish I'd have also used.  I also find myself wishing I'd hammered the point home more (or some) that Ennis and Jack did not deliberately get married to cover their homosexuality, as he had postulated.  I did say that Ennis did not think of himself as gay and so getting married and being with women seemed like the natural course of events for him in his life.  But I wish I'd gone on to say that Jack did not marry for that reason, either - he married for money.  And how many among us, female and male, can say we haven't done or would never do that to some extent?  And I wish I'd gone on to say that I think he's applying a double-standard to gay men.  But that one spoke for itself, I guess, in his answer to my final question.  Brevity really is the soul of wit.  If only I remembered that more often.

[YaadPyar]

And I wish I'd gone on to say that I think he's applying a double-standard to gay men.  But that one spoke for itself, I guess, in his answer to my final question.  Brevity really is the soul of wit. 

It's important to have these conversations, not to prove oneselft right, but truly to help someone see that there's a world beyond there assumptions, and it's a place that's richer for everyone.  As far as I can see, folks hold onto their beliefs like superstitions, believing in something that isn't objectively true because it makes them feel safer or protected somehow.  So, to simply yank that away can be destructive, which is why these conversations can be the end of relationships.

But to do what you did, which is to let someone discover the ways that their own beliefs or assumptions don't make sense, is like letting in a little light.  So much hate, intolerance, prejudice, etc., comes from deep seated fear and insecurity.  When you reveal that the object of that negativity is just another human being, with understandable and relatable feelings, experiences and emotions, it builds a bridge of potential understanding.

That's no small thing to be a part of.

[ednbarby]

It's important to have these conversations, not to prove oneselft right, but truly to help someone see that there's a world beyond there assumptions, and it's a place that's richer for everyone.  As far as I can see, folks hold onto their beliefs like superstitions, believing in something that isn't objectively true because it makes them feel safer or protected somehow.  So, to simply yank that away can be destructive, which is why these conversations can be the end of relationships.

But to do what you did, which is to let someone discover the ways that their own beliefs or assumptions don't make sense, is like letting in a little light.  So much hate, intolerance, prejudice, etc., comes from deep seated fear and insecurity.  When you reveal that the object of that negativity is just another human being, with understandable and relatable feelings, experiences and emotions, it builds a bridge of potential understanding.

That's no small thing to be a part of.

You're right - if I'd hammered it home too hard, it'd have just been off-putting and accomplished nothing.  And I doubt I'd have gotten to hear the much-coveted "touche," and from a self-proclaimed right-wing nut job to boot, nor heard him say at the end of the night, "I hope I see you again and we can talk movies some more."

By the way, the only other time I've ever heard someone say "touche," and it wasn't directed at me, was one day about 10 years ago when my mother-in-law and I were walking our four dogs in Columbus, Georgia around the block on a warm July morning, and this young guy comes jogging by and yells, "Dontcha think it's a little hot to be walking those dogs today?" and Ed's mom yells back, "Dontcha think it's a little hot to be running today?"

Man, I miss her.

[newyearsday]

So much wisdom, Celeste. What a different world it would be if, even half the time, we could see the bigger perspective, and take the road of bridge-building rather than reinforcing each other's walls of defensiveness and fear.

Barb, it sounds like the light touch of your questions and look at the end gave this guy an opening rather than shutting him down. It's such a contentious topic, so filled with fear and hate for American men especially, that we sometimes have to tread lightly if we want to make positive change possible for them.