Author Topic: "Somewhere in Time" 1980 film with parallels to BBM?  (Read 43479 times)

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: "Somewhere in Time" 1980 film with parallels to BBM?
« Reply #60 on: November 06, 2010, 05:50:06 pm »
Interesting points, Jeff.  I'm curious if other gay men on here would reiterate your distinctions?

Any gay man who would deny my point about a distinction between sex and love is a liar. The whole culture of gay bars--and now hook-up web sites--is built on that distinction--the desire to get laid, not the search for a life partner.

Quote
I was especially intrigued by your last sentence above -- "recognize the possibility of love".    Which leads me to my next question, and I vaguely remember addressing this question before a few years ago on here somewhere.  We believe that Jack had sex with the sheepherder he was with up on the mountain during the spring before he met Ennis.  Are we to also believe that based on the story and the screenplay/film, that there's no remote possibility that Jack also could have loved THAT man, but just gave up quicker on HIM because it was potentially a first-time, flash-in-the-pan, you're-expected-to-be-this-way-with-your-raging-hormones-away-from-females kind of thing?  What if he'd never met Ennis?  (Eek, that possibility makes me sick to my stomach.)  Anyway, what if Jack had gone back to the mountain and been faced with the other guy instead of Ennis?  Could it THEN have finally become love through the passage of time, and the dedication it would have taken to return to the place of THEIR first meeting?  Or would it have just been another spring filled with random sex?[/color]

"We" do? Believe that Jack had sex with his work partner the previous summer? "We" have no idea who Jack's work partner was the previous year. Maybe it was some old Basque who smelled bad and had no teeth? I'm sorry, but it seems like you're asking a lot of theoretical "what-if" type questions here. They just don't interest me. Or maybe I'm just tired because I've spent the whole day cleaning house.  :P
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 07:10:47 pm by Jeff Wrangler »
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: "Somewhere in Time" 1980 film with parallels to BBM?
« Reply #61 on: November 06, 2010, 05:58:28 pm »
The next point you made that has me intrigued is, was the above your first and only impression of the man?  I don't know how many times you saw the film or what age you were at when you did, but didn't you ever in the slightest, think that perhaps he was romantically in love with this woman first and foremost, and THEN would do anything he could do to MAKE it succeed, because he knew it would make her happy as a passionately-committed actress?  Cause I've never felt any other way.  Perhaps that's the romantic in me, I don't know.

Well, I specifically said, "my memory," because it's been a very long time since I last watched this film. But, again, my memory is that I never really felt the Plummer character was in love with the Seymour character. He always struck me as a Svengali or a Pygmalian type. Jane Seymour's character and her career as an actress was his creation, and Christopher Reeve's character was a threat to his creation. I never saw Plummer and Reeve as romantic rivals for Jane Seymour.
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: "Somewhere in Time" 1980 film with parallels to BBM?
« Reply #62 on: November 06, 2010, 06:04:16 pm »
When you think about it, that's a foundation of the opposition to same-sex marriage. It isn't so much opposition to same-sex activity as to the suggestion that there's something more than that. It's the people who are often accused of being "heteronormative" that are the real threats to the NOM organizers of the world.

Good thought, Marcia. Same-sex sex activity can always be dismissed as the sin of sodomy, and the participants dismissed and condemned as sinners. It's the suggestion that there is "something more" that's threatening.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline southendmd

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Re: "Somewhere in Time" 1980 film with parallels to BBM?
« Reply #63 on: November 06, 2010, 07:35:22 pm »
As I recall, Seymour's character says that her manager has foreseen a number of things that would happen in her career; that he seemed to know just what would happen.  So maybe he was a time-traveler too?  Now I'll have to read the book!

Yes, that is why she asks, "Is it you?" when she meet Richard.  She, and Robinson her manager, were "expecting" him.  I'm not sure if he is meant to be clairvoyant, or just foreseeing the inevitable.

We are told that he has been involved in Elise's career since she was sixteen.  Is it more than a manager-actress relationship?  Certainly he is protective of her; and dismissive of Richard.  However, when Richard asks Robinson if he had aims on Elise as a wife, Robinson becomes very offended, as if ART were more important than just marriage.  Doth he protest too much here?  Surely, he was eager to "disappear" Richard when Richard professed his intentions.  I do love how Elise stands up to him though ("I'm not a doormat you can wipe your boots on!").

I, too, plan to read the book to find out more.  I just bought a copy of the old paperback for $1!
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Offline Mandy21

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Re: "Somewhere in Time" 1980 film with parallels to BBM?
« Reply #64 on: November 06, 2010, 09:28:10 pm »
Any gay man who would deny my point about a deistinction between sex and love is a liar. The whole culture of gay bars--and now hook-up web sites--is built on that distinction--the desire to get laid, not the search for a life partner.

"We" do? Believe that Jack had sex with his work partner the previous summer? "We" have no idea who Jack's work partner was the previous year. Maybe it was some old Basque who smelled bad and had no teeth? I'm sorry, but it seems like you're asking a lot of theoretical "what-if" type questions here. They just don't interest me. Or maybe I'm just tired because I've spent the whole day cleaning house.  :P

Jeff, I certainly wasn't trying to offend you in any way by my comments.  I thought that this, like all other topics on BetterMost, were brought forward so that we could try to understand each other better.  You shared your experience and perspective, and I thank you for that.  I was just hoping to extend the discussion about this great film amongst others who might have different experiences and perspectives, including myself. 

Sorry my questions don't "interest" you.  My bad...
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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: "Somewhere in Time" 1980 film with parallels to BBM?
« Reply #65 on: November 07, 2010, 04:49:22 pm »
So, how did the double feature go? I'd love to hear about your viewing.
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Offline Mandy21

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Re: "Somewhere in Time" 1980 film with parallels to BBM?
« Reply #66 on: November 07, 2010, 08:13:51 pm »
SIT in late morning, and I've just paused at the 11/7 postcard moment in BBM.  All is well, my friend.

After that, I've got the 2010 version of Nightmare on Elm Street lined up, now that it gets so dark so early:)

Thanks for asking, Lee!
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: "Somewhere in Time" 1980 film with parallels to BBM?
« Reply #67 on: November 07, 2010, 09:51:43 pm »
Jeff, I certainly wasn't trying to offend you in any way by my comments.  I thought that this, like all other topics on BetterMost, were brought forward so that we could try to understand each other better.  You shared your experience and perspective, and I thank you for that.  I was just hoping to extend the discussion about this great film amongst others who might have different experiences and perspectives, including myself. 

Sorry my questions don't "interest" you.  My bad...


Please don't worry that I was offended because I sure enough wasn't. You weren't "bad" about anything, as far as I'm concerned. But you were asking questions that I'm just not interested in talking about--maybe I should apologize for my lack of interest.  :-\ I probably came off sharper than I should have, too, and I'm sorry about that.  :(

Memo to self: In future, don't write Bettermost posts after you've spent an entire day cleaning house.  :P

I'm not sure where you get your assurance that Jack had sex with whoever he worked with the previous summer. Since Jack took the initiative with Ennis, I'm pretty sure myself that he was no virgin. It's a logical assumption that he had sex with his coworker the previous summer--but in the end, isn't that really still just an assumption? If he'd already been doing some rodeoing before he met Ennis, mightn't he have had his introduction to gay sex somewhere "out on the road" while he was rodeoing? That's just an assumption, too, of course, but you see where I'm going here? I can't recall anything in the movie or any text to allow a conclusive conclusion that Jack had sex with his coworker the previous summer. It's logical to think that might have happened, but we can't really prove it, can we?
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: "Somewhere in Time" 1980 film with parallels to BBM?
« Reply #68 on: November 10, 2010, 07:35:30 am »
I'm just finding this thread.  I remember a few years back, someone comparing Somewhere In Time with Brokeback Mountain, in terms of their fanbase, and the love affair.  Now I (kind of) want to see it.

I just looked up Jane Seymour on Wikipedia.  She's married to James Keach, and they have 5 year old twins:
"1993 to present: James Keach (with whom she had twins, Johnny and Kris, born November 30, 1995, and named after family friends, Johnny Cash and Christopher Reeve)"

She herself is nearly 60, how can she have 5 year old twins?  I think there's more time traveling here than meets the eye.  James Keach played the prison warden in Walk The Line, I'm pretty sure, the movie about their friend Johnny Cash.



Offline southendmd

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Re: "Somewhere in Time" 1980 film with parallels to BBM?
« Reply #69 on: November 10, 2010, 08:01:01 am »
Hmm, not time travel, just plain old math. 

If the twins were born in 1995, then they're almost 15, and Jane had them when she was about 45.
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