Author Topic: The "I LOVE everything Jack" thread  (Read 40847 times)

Offline ednbarby

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,586
Re: The "I LOVE everything Jack" thread
« Reply #80 on: October 06, 2006, 12:44:43 pm »
Along the lines of Jack being a comfortable dancer, I love how comfortable in his own skin Jack is.  Even when he is treading lightly with Ennis because he knows he has such a low startle point, he never appears the least bit insecure (with the exception of the post-divorce scene, and I think that's what makes it so heartbreaking to me).

Quiet confidence is probably the most attractive human trait to me - even moreso than a good sense of humor and intelligence, although those are tied for a close second.
No more beans!

Offline Penthesilea

  • Town Administration
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,745
Re: The "I LOVE everything Jack" thread
« Reply #81 on: October 06, 2006, 06:33:47 pm »
Along the lines of Jack being a comfortable dancer, I love how comfortable in his own skin Jack is.  Even when he is treading lightly with Ennis because he knows he has such a low startle point, he never appears the least bit insecure (with the exception of the post-divorce scene, and I think that's what makes it so heartbreaking to me).

(emphasis added by me)

I beg to differ: when they part after Brokeback, Jack is highly insecure (not that it is not understandable).
With Lureen in the bar: it is her who makes the first move. She even jokes about it (waitin' for a mating call?).
When he returns next summer to Aguirre's trailer and Aguirre conftronts him: he is brave, but alarmed and nervous and sure not comfortable in his own skin (again: understandable).

To follow the rules:
I love when Jack is wearing the bandana (e.g. when he comes back to camp and Ennis isn't there). God, that bandana makes him even hotter  ::) He should have worn it all the time.

Offline Sheriff Roland

  • BetterMost Supporter
  • Moderator
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,492
Re: The "I LOVE everything Jack" thread
« Reply #82 on: October 06, 2006, 07:11:45 pm »
To follow the rules:
I love when Jack is wearing the bandana (e.g. when he comes back to camp and Ennis isn't there). God, that bandana makes him even hotter  ::) He should have worn it all the time.

Those rules went out with the decline in interest in these threads - I don't hold anyone to them anymore - but I appreciate being able to read more ways we love our characters.

BTW, looking at some of Tom of Finland's early 60's work, they (bandanas) were quite the "hot gay" thing to wear in those days - don't know if the general population thought it sexy, but Tom's work seems to confirm a "period/era" reality to the perception that bandanas worn on the neck was  sexually attractive/masculine.

Then came the leather (aaaah)
2015 - Toronto: Pan Am Games
2015 - Edmonton, Montréal, Ottawa, Vancouver, Winnipeg: Woman's World Cup of Soccer

Offline ednbarby

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,586
Re: The "I LOVE everything Jack" thread
« Reply #83 on: October 06, 2006, 07:21:24 pm »
(emphasis added by me)

I beg to differ: when they part after Brokeback, Jack is highly insecure (not that it is not understandable).
With Lureen in the bar: it is her who makes the first move. She even jokes about it (waitin' for a mating call?).
When he returns next summer to Aguirre's trailer and Aguirre conftronts him: he is brave, but alarmed and nervous and sure not comfortable in his own skin (again: understandable).

I'll give you the first one.  But I don't think he even begins to feel insecure until Ennis responds with, "Like I say, me and Alma's gettin' married in November, ... , you?"  It's quite similar to the post-divorce scene that way, I reckon.  He doesn't begin to feel insecure there until after he says, "So here I am" and Ennis, again, retreats from him.

But I can't give you the second one.  I don't think it occurs to him to make any kind of a move with her until he learns of all the money her Daddy has.  He's aware she's checking him out, but he's not attracted to her.  I kind of think he's hoping she'll dance with someone else and leave him alone until he hears about the money.

Quote
To follow the rules:
I love when Jack is wearing the bandana (e.g. when he comes back to camp and Ennis isn't there). God, that bandana makes him even hotter  ::) He should have worn it all the time.

Gotta agree with you *wholeheartedly* on this one.  The combination of that slate blue shirt and that faded red bandana with his coloring is KILLER.  I swear I feel my heart flutter just a tiny bit every time he first sports that combo.
No more beans!

Offline Penthesilea

  • Town Administration
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,745
Re: The "I LOVE everything Jack" thread
« Reply #84 on: October 07, 2006, 08:06:06 am »
Hi Barb,

I checked those three scenes on my DVD a few minutes ago.

I'll give you the first one.  But I don't think he even begins to feel insecure until Ennis responds with,
"Like I say, me and Alma's gettin' married in November, ... , you?" 


Well, this in the beginning of the scene. First thing said is: "Give it some gas", then "I can't believe I left my damned shirt up there."
And Jack is clearly uncomfortable about Ennis's remark (no wonder), answers only with a lukewarm "Right"
Next he asks Ennis about next summer. And while doing so (before Ennis's answer about
marrying Alma), you can see and hear in his facial expression and voice his doubts, insecurity and
hopes. He is clearly and understandably anxious about what Ennis might say.

Quote
But I can't give you the second one.  I don't think it occurs to him to make any kind of a move
with her until he learns of all the money her Daddy has.  He's aware she's checking him out, but he's
not attracted to her.  I kind of think he's hoping she'll dance with someone else and leave him alone
until he hears about the money.


Again, I have a different impression. I think he is intrigued by and interested in her sassy appearance before he knows about the money (the looks he gives her along with her hat and in the bar before he asks the barkeeper about her). But if he's indeed insecure or just undecided is arguable. I believe it's both.

Another exapmle: the morning after TS1.

I agree with you that compared to Ennis, Jack is wonderful self-confident. He is remarkably comfortable in his skin measured by his time and upbringing. But "never appears the least bit insecure" - sorry, I still can't agree with that.
"It is my feeling that a story is not finished until it is read, and that the reader finishes it through his or her life experience, prejudices, world view and thoughts." - Annie Proulx
She and Ang indeed gave us a whole lot to fill in with our own experiences etc., didn't they? No wonder after so many months we still find things to discuss and to dis/-agree about.

Quote
Gotta agree with you *wholeheartedly* on this one.  The combination of that slate blue shirt and that faded red bandana with his coloring is KILLER.  I swear I feel my heart flutter just a tiny bit every time he first sports that combo.

 :) Here ya go:

 
« Last Edit: October 07, 2006, 08:12:12 am by Penthesilea »

Offline Sheriff Roland

  • BetterMost Supporter
  • Moderator
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,492
Re: The "I LOVE everything Jack" thread
« Reply #85 on: October 07, 2006, 09:53:43 pm »
re: bandanas

Here's the image from Tom of Finland that led me to think of bandanas as a supposedly masculine touch, in the gay world - in the early 60's (of course I'm not completely certain of the date of this image - nor do I think that bandana adds anything to masculinity, in this image)

2 guys in the background are wearing them
2015 - Toronto: Pan Am Games
2015 - Edmonton, Montréal, Ottawa, Vancouver, Winnipeg: Woman's World Cup of Soccer

Offline Sheriff Roland

  • BetterMost Supporter
  • Moderator
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,492
Re: The "I LOVE everything Jack" thread
« Reply #86 on: October 07, 2006, 10:00:15 pm »
And here are two othe images, from Tom of Finland which also uses bandanas, though again, they aren't what I find most attractive about these pics again - I believe that they're from the sixties - but by this time, there's a lot more leather in Tom's pics
« Last Edit: October 08, 2006, 03:43:08 am by Roland »
2015 - Toronto: Pan Am Games
2015 - Edmonton, Montréal, Ottawa, Vancouver, Winnipeg: Woman's World Cup of Soccer

Offline JT

  • Brokeback Mountain Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 248
Re: The "I LOVE everything Jack" thread
« Reply #87 on: October 07, 2006, 11:42:16 pm »
Some hot drawings you got there, Roland!

But I just love Jack with his bandana.  It's so cowboyish and sexy.  And Jack pulls it off quite nicely with his outfit and coloring.  He's a "killer" all right.

Offline ednbarby

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,586
Re: The "I LOVE everything Jack" thread
« Reply #88 on: October 09, 2006, 04:56:11 pm »
Some hot drawings you got there, Roland!

But I just love Jack with his bandana.  It's so cowboyish and sexy.  And Jack pulls it off quite nicely with his outfit and coloring.  He's a "killer" all right.

I couldn't agree more.   And what a way to go.  ;D

Penth, I think maybe we're just disagreeing on semantics.  I think one can be quietly confident and comfortable in his own skin but yet still be occasionally vulnerable.  I think maybe that's what I find so appealing about Jack, and about other fictional characters and real men I've historically been the most attracted to - someone who is generally self-possessed and self-assured always puts me at ease.  But someone who has those qualities and yet is too cold-hearted to ever have his soul laid bare by another human being is not appealing to me at all.  Always and forever, whenever a character (or someone I know personally) who is confident and assured (without being cocky, of course, because that's a sure sign of insecurity) suddenly looks at the object of his affection with the eyes of a child, I say good-bye to a little piece of my heart.  I don't see children as insecure - just trusting and naive in their trust - vulnerable.  They're perhaps on the same tree, but different branches in my mind.
No more beans!

Offline twistedude

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,430
  • "It's nobody's business but ours."
    • "every sort of organized noise"
Re: The "I LOVE everything Jack" thread
« Reply #89 on: October 09, 2006, 05:34:39 pm »
Penth: Jack does NOT say "right," no matter how recently you saw the DVD, he says "yeah," and it's the most perfect one-syllable lie I ever heard...

Agree that Jack finds Lureen attractive; this is different from being attracted to her.

I don't like hunks, straigtht or gay, but Jack in his bandana is definitely hot. Hey, just try to imagine Jack in any outfit, from any period of history....hot.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2006, 05:37:15 pm by twistedude »
"We're each of us alone, to be sure. What can you do but hold your hand out in the dark?" --"Nine Lives," by Ursula K. Le Guin, from The Wind's Twelve Quarters