Author Topic: Home for the Holidays (david requests tremblayan group therapy)  (Read 5734 times)

Offline Kelda

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,703
  • Zorbing....
    • Keldas Facebook Page!
Re: Home for the Holidays (david requests tremblayan group therapy)
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2006, 04:57:03 am »
David..

I cannot be so eloquent as those gone before but I just had to say hello....and hang in there.

People care about you more than you shall ever know. And we are so thrilled you have done so well.

Some people fall into their life with ease ... others take a bit of time to get settled.

It doesn't mean the clothes don't fit or you will never be happy. It just means you are a complicated spirit - not a bad thing in my book or - if I can make such a bold statment - anyone on Bettermost's book.

(((HUGS))))
http://www.idbrass.com

Please use the following links when shopping online -It will help us raise money without costing you a penny.

http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/idb

http://idb.easysearch.org.uk/

Offline ednbarby

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,586
Re: Home for the Holidays (david requests tremblayan group therapy)
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2006, 05:20:00 pm »
Way to go on the A's, David!

I think Elle has a good point - your Mom may be depressed herself and that's the most enthusiasm she can muster.  My heart hurts for you.  Clinical depression runs in my family, too.  My mother and one of my brothers have spent much of their lives self-medicating theirs with alcohol.  Mine came on in the form of post-partum depression four days after my son was born.  Thank goodness a sharp doctor noticed it right away and got me the help I needed.  When you're experiencing it, as you well know, you are not yourself.  You're not capable of saying, "My goodness.  I'm having irrational, overwhelming thoughts of failure and guilt and can't think straight.  I need help."  You just feel like that's your life, now.

And the holidays - good God.  They're enough to drive even the most mentally-healthy person on the planet into a depression.  We see all those Hallmark and Norman Rockwell moments depicted on TV, in the movies, in magazines making us feel like our imperfect or downright dysfunctional families are somehow abnormal - like we're the only ones who just wish this time of year would hurry up and be over with, already.  I haven't talked to anyone my age (41) this week who is actually excited about seeing and/or spending a lot of time with all of their family members.  There may be this one or that one they look forward to seeing, but everyone has at least family member they can barely stand.

Chin up, darlin'.  I think your friends are your true family.  And I know it's hard when people you thought were your friends let you down.  When that happens, I just appreciate those who haven't that much more.  Surround yourself with the people who do support you.  Don't isolate yourself.  If your friends are nowhere to be found, maybe go out to a lively, fun area and just enjoy being around other people who are celebrating.  Maybe it's just the closet extrovert in me, but I find that when I feel the most down (and right around this time of year is when I usually do), the best medicine is to just get out there and listen to and watch people talk and laugh.  And if all else fails, you know you can always find friends here.

 
« Last Edit: December 23, 2006, 11:17:54 am by ednbarby »
No more beans!

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,330
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Home for the Holidays (david requests tremblayan group therapy)
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2006, 05:35:49 pm »
Hey, David! Thanks for coming back, I missed you! You're my fellow Aguirre and I could never live up to your portrayal of him. Don't be in a hurry to graduate from college! It's a jungle out there! Stay in school as long as you can!! And take a break from the holidays whenever you feel it overwhelming you. We love you, David!!  :)
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline kirkmusic

  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 300
  • Minstrel
Re: Home for the Holidays (david requests tremblayan group therapy)
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2006, 06:29:04 am »
"All I want is to feel normal."

So what's so great about normal?  You know what normal gets you?  It gets you started too fast into a career you won't like in 5 years.  It gets you married too soon and divorced soon after.  It gets you trying to fit into a place you just plain don't.  And besides, the concept of normal varies so widely from place to place and social group to social group that the whole quest and desire for normality, if not pointless (because I do understand it), is frustating beyond human tolerance.

The ironic thing is, you already are normal.

I used to walk down busy streets in sunny California, looking at people hanging out with their friends on weekend afternoons in outdoor cafes and wonder why that couldn't be me.  Why was I so lonely and isolated?  Why do all of these beautiful people seem to know each other and have such a good time together?  How does one get on the call list?  And I was so focused on how lonely I was that when I actually was hanging out with friends, I didn't appreciate it.  After all, it was only a matter time time before everyone went home and I'd be alone again.

As I got older I came to learn that no one's life is ideal, that many of those people I envied might not be having the good time they looked like they were having.  Or perhaps that I really wouldn't care to know them.  Case in point:  I go to a gay gym in San Francisco.  There were a number of guys I would see regularly that just looked so amazing.  So naturally they were out of my league.  But I kept looking.  As time went on I gained some self confidence and started talking to some of them, or at least observing them more closely.  And you know what?  They weren't all that.  They all looked great but there was a bad, negative attitude, or a voice that was a total deal breaker, or they were so low energy as to be unappealing on a personal level, or they were total flakes or...  Nobody's perfect.  Nobody's normal.  So everyone is.

And while everyone has their faults, it's also important to note that everyone has their strengths.  So maybe I wouldn't want to date any of these guys, but there's no reason that, having now introduced myself and conversed with them, I couldn't do the same when I saw them again.  That being said, if you feel like you want to forsake all of your relationships except for a few important ones, okay.  Maybe you just haven't found your place yet.  Personally, there's been no one place I've felt at home since high school.  The only times I do feel at home are when I'm in the company of people I have a strong connection with.  And there are precious few of those.  And that's fine.

I recently returned to my old job after a 4 month absence.  So many people were so happy to see me.  It felt good to be appreciated.  And I didn't question how deeply they liked me, like I would have in my teens or twenties.  Just because you're not a huge part of someone's life doesn't mean that the part you do play, and that they play in yours, is meaningless.  After all, you can only put your attention on so many things at once.  And from the sound of it, you had your hands full with school.

Speaking of which, your mom's reaction to your grades could not have had anything to do with you.  If "better" was the best she could come up with, she obviously has some serious stuff going on in her own head.  What you accomplished was an amazing achievement.  Don't let anyone take that away from you. (Says the guy who put on an outstanding, critically acclaimed cabaret show 2 years ago and was heartbroken because more people hadn't shown up.  I do understand the need for outside approval and support.)  Be gentle with your mom and yourself.  Don't mistake lack of excitement over your grades as lack of love.  I don't know your family, but I do know that we often put meaning onto certain actions and words which, in fact, don't mean what we think they did.  If there's something you need, something that you define as "support" from you mother, don't be afraid to come right out and ask for it.  You might be surprised at the conversation that follows.  And if she's incapable of giving you the support you need, don't drive yourself nuts trying to get it from her.  It's not your fault.

I also wanted to say that it's okay not to know what you want yet.  You are so young!  I've known what I've wanted since I was about 14 and look where it's gotten me.  I only really started going for it a few years ago, and even that resolve comes in fits and starts.  And I'm 37.

I totally feel for where you are right now.  Please know that you are not alone.  I recognize the feeling of not being understood.  And I'm telling you right now, it's an illusion.  I used to think of myself as so unique and so complex that no one could really "get" me.  Nobody could build more finely detailed walls than me.  The day I was finally able to give that up was one of the top five best days of my life.  It made me more willing to give people a chance to understand me and more willing to express myself in such a way that they could.  And you know what the best thing was?  My walls really were very impressive.  Monumental.  Fascinating.  If I could create something of such density and complexity I could create anything I wanted.

You've already proven yourself to be extremely powerful in turning your life around.  Trust yourself.  Trust your intuition.  Trust that you are right where you need to be.  And trust that we are here for you.

David, seeing your screen name on a new post always brings a smile to my face.  Thanks for letting us in.

Kirk
« Last Edit: December 22, 2006, 06:35:21 am by kirkmusic »

Offline Kelda

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,703
  • Zorbing....
    • Keldas Facebook Page!
Re: Home for the Holidays (david requests tremblayan group therapy)
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2006, 06:37:47 am »
"All I want is to feel normal."

So what's so great about normal?  You know what normal gets you?  It gets you started too fast into a career you won't like in 5 years.  It gets you married too soon and divorced soon after.  It gets you trying to fit into a place you just plain don't.  And besides, the concept of normal varies so widely from place to place and social group to social group that the whole quest and desire for normality, if not pointless (because I do understand it), is frustating beyond human tolerance.

The ironic thing is, you already are normal.

I used to walk down busy streets in sunny California, looking at people hanging out with their friends on weekend afternoons in outdoor cafes and wonder why that couldn't be me.  Why was I so lonely and isolated?  Why do all of these beautiful people seem to know each other and have such a good time together?  How does one get on the call list?  And I was so focused on how lonely I was that when I actually was hanging out with friends, I didn't appreciate it.  After all, it was only a matter time time before everyone went home and I'd be alone again.

As I got older I came to learn that no one's life is ideal, that many of those people I envied might not be having the good time they looked like they were having.  Or perhaps that I really wouldn't care to know them.  Case in point:  I go to a gay gym in San Francisco.  There were a number of guys I would see regularly that just looked so amazing.  So naturally they were out of my league.  But I kept looking.  As time went on I gained some self confidence and started talking to some of them, or at least observing them more closely.  And you know what?  They weren't all that.  They all looked great but there was a bad, negative attitude, or a voice that was a total deal breaker, or they were so low energy as to be unappealing on a personal level, or they were total flakes or...  Nobody's perfect.  Nobody's normal.  So everyone is.

And while everyone has their faults, it's also important to note that everyone has their strengths.  So maybe I wouldn't want to date any of these guys, but there's no reason that, having now introduced myself and conversed with them, I couldn't do the same when I saw them again.  That being said, if you feel like you want to forsake all of your relationships except for a few important ones, okay.  Maybe you just haven't found your place yet.  Personally, there's been no one place I've felt at home since high school.  The only times I do feel at home are when I'm in the company of people I have a strong connection with.  And there are precious few of those.  And that's fine.

I recently returned to my old job after a 4 month absence.  So many people were so happy to see me.  It felt good to be appreciated.  And I didn't question how deeply they liked me, like I would have in my teens or twenties.  Just because you're not a huge part of someone's life doesn't mean that the part you do play, and that they play in yours, is meaningless.  After all, you can only put your attention on so many things at once.  And from the sound of it, you had your hands full with school.

Speaking of which, your mom's reaction to your grades could not have had anything to do with you.  If "better" was the best she could come up with, she obviously has some serious stuff going on in her own head.  What you accomplished was an amazing achievement.  Don't let anyone take that away from you. (Says the guy who put on an outstanding, critically acclaimed cabaret show 2 years ago and was heartbroken because more people hadn't shown up.  I do understand the need for outside approval and support.)  Be gentle with your mom and yourself.  Don't mistake lack of excitement over your grades as lack of love.  I don't know your family, but I do know that we often put meaning onto certain actions and words which, in fact, don't mean what we think they did.  If there's something you need, something that you define as "support" from you mother, don't be afraid to come right out and ask for it.  You might be surprised at the conversation that follows.  And if she's incapable of giving you the support you need, don't drive yourself nuts trying to get it from her.  It's not your fault.

I also wanted to say that it's okay not to know what you want yet.  You are so young!  I've known what I've wanted since I was about 14 and look where it's gotten me.  I only really started going for it a few years ago, and even that resolve comes in fits and starts.  And I'm 37.

I totally feel for where you are right now.  Please know that you are not alone.  I recognize the feeling of not being understood.  And I'm telling you right now, it's an illusion.  I used to think of myself as so unique and so complex that no one could really "get" me.  Nobody could build more finely detailed walls than me.  The day I was finally able to give that up was one of the top five best days of my life.  It made me more willing to give people a chance to understand me and more willing to express myself in such a way that they could.  And you know what the best thing was?  My walls really were very impressive.  Monumental.  Fascinating.  If I could create something of such density and complexity I could create anything I wanted.

You've already proven yourself to be extremely powerful in turning your life around.  Trust yourself.  Trust your intuition.  Trust that you are right where you need to be.  And trust that we are here for you.

David, seeing your screen name on a new post always brings a smile to my face.  Thanks for letting us in.

Kirk

wow kirk.. you made me sniffle at work. great advice.
http://www.idbrass.com

Please use the following links when shopping online -It will help us raise money without costing you a penny.

http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/idb

http://idb.easysearch.org.uk/

Offline Ellemeno

  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • ********
  • Posts: 15,367
Re: Home for the Holidays (david requests tremblayan group therapy)
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2006, 11:46:02 am »
What Kirk said.


Which I nominate for inclusion in the top ten truest posts ever anywhere.

Offline coffeecat33

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,352
Re: Home for the Holidays (david requests tremblayan group therapy)
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2006, 12:37:47 pm »
Hello David,

You and I don't know each other but we share a few things in common - chronic depression and a love of Brokeback Mountain. If I were to give you advice, it would be to print out Kirk's post and read it often.

Your mom is your mom and you will only get from her what she is capable of giving. If you have some expectations of her, you need to voice it - tell her exactly what you want in terms she'll understand. (My friend told her mom she wanted her mom to be supportive of her. Most moms don't have a clue what is meant by that, so you need to define it. If this doesn't make sense, please ask your therapist/counselor.)

Erica Jong said, "Jealousy is the fun you think other people are having." No one has their shit together any more or less than you do. It just looks different from the outside. (If you had met Jack down in Texas, who was married to pretty Lureen, what would you think of him? That he was straight & had everything he needed/wanted?)

Please don't cut anybody out or off. Just let be, let be. I became happier when I just took what people gave me. Consequently I have male and female friends, of all different ages and backgrounds. Some I exchange a few emails with, one I see pretty regularly. All different.

A few other random thoughts:

 Am I correct in assuming that you are a gay man about 21 yrs old? If you are in college, there's a chance it has a GLTB association. Join. Go to meetings. If there isn't, then contact a Gay or GLTB group in your town and go.
 Take at least one "frivolous" class just because you love the subject. I took a course about 'American Indians in Movies" and it was one of best, most fun, most eye-opening classes I ever took. All we did was watch movies then write reflective papers.
 You are looking for what people can give you like praise for your good grades. Instead of thinking that people don't give you what you want, try giving someone else what they need.
 Read what Kirk said about his complexities and the walls he created. It is TRUE about nearly every one of us. We think people can't understand us, but usually it's the case that we don't understand others.
 It is egotistical to think that others can't 'get' us. Try harder to make yourself understood. One thing I realized is that I often don't speak loud enough or clearly enough for others to hear me, so I try to keep that in mind when talking to someone.

Lastly, I would suggest that you look at your user name. TheStudDuck! What does that say about you? How does that invite people to get close to you?

Just keep on.

coffeecat33 / Leslie K.

Offline kirkmusic

  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 300
  • Minstrel
Re: Home for the Holidays (david requests tremblayan group therapy)
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2006, 04:38:30 pm »
Hey David.  My partner Nick had this to add...

I suffer with depression also and know what that is like. Finding a good therapist and taking medication for the depression at the times in my life when it’s been at it’s worst has been both very tricky and very helpful. Well worth the effort though.

I connect with your feelings of loneliness and noticed that no one else has pointed to the fact that those feelings are part of the human condition and a mark of a true artist/inspirationalist. Look at all the people throughout history who have suffered with depression and have achieved great things:
 http://www.mixednuts.net/depression-famous.html
In addition to great people throughout history:
Abraham Lincoln, Virginia Wolfe, Eugene O’Neill, John Keats, Vincent Van Gogh, Isaac Newton, Michelangelo…
We’re in good company.

With that said, being told “you’re young” really sucks. I remember that. You’re not so young but you do have many life altering experiences to look forward to. It’s up to you to create those experiences. Embrace every relationship for what it can offer you even if it only offers you superficial conversation and leaves you with a feeling of longing for more. Embrace the longing. Don’t resist it. If you don’t fight it, it can’t win and you can’t lose. Embrace the longing as part of your beauty and an expression of the richness of your soul. Let it point to the fact that you are very capable of creating long lasting, loving relationships and that you value the little things others overlook.

With that said, I encourage you to find little things that bring a smile to your face. Lots of little things amount to a great feeling of satisfaction. Example: I live in San Francisco and when it’s dark, cold and wet (which makes dealing with depression very difficult for me), I walk my dog by a jasmine bush down the block. So, there I am with my dog and it’s black outside at 5PM. I am cold and damp. Then I just stop at that bush, close my eyes and inhale the sweet fragrance of the blooms (jasmine blooms Dec-Feb here in SF). I just stand there a moment and smile. Smiling brings my mind to the things and people who are or who have been in my life, the people who really bring me happiness and fill my heart. In that moment, I am really glad to be a participant on this planet.
It works for me.

I connect with you in that I am also someone who seeks reassurance and approval from others. More directly, I feel let down when people do not give me what I need from them. I found the key is to let them know what is I need from them. That requires a lot of soul searching on my part. Once I can identify what I want/need from someone, then I can communicate that to them. Try this with your mom. Don’t put any pressure on her and don’t make her defensive but simply ask. Maybe something like, “I know this may sound needy, but I was hoping you would be more enthusiastic about my grades. Can we do a little something together to celebrate, just you and me? That would really make me happy”. I don’t know your family situation and hope that may sound reasonable to you (and her). If she does agree then while you’re out celebrating (lunch, a movie, etc.) tell her that you are proud of yourself for having turned your grades around and that you plan to continue on this track. Let her know that you value your relationship with her and ask her to encourage you to continue getting the great grades. Perhaps, “if you push me a little, I think I can continue making the changes we’ve seen recently. Will you check in with me from time to time and make sure I am not slipping?” I hope that makes her feel like she is an important influence in your life and that should give her a great sense of being loved by you.
Remember the best way to get love is to put it out there.