Mary Renault Book Discussion

[Kerry]

"count upon nothing, but make your own nest against the storm"

"I lit the nightlamp and set it by the bed, and watched with him, til at morning the embalmers came to take him from me and fill him with everlasting myrhh."


-The Persian Boy by Mary Renault

So wonderful to meet a fellow Mary Renault fan. I love this quote from The Persian Boy:

"I used to wonder at first what faint pleasant scent he (Alexander the Great) used, and would look about for the phial; but there was none, it was the gift of nature."

This demonstrates brilliantly the depth of Renault's research skills, for she is quoting from Aristoxenus' memoir, where he says a very pleasant scent came from Alexander's skin and that there was a fragrance  in his breath and all his body which permeated the clothes he wore.

I love the extremely intimate insight these few words allow us into Alexander's most personal self. In an age when bathing and dental hygiene were not high on Macedonian soldiers' priorities, especially when on campaign, it's no wonder Alexander's men worshiped him. Not only did he have the gorgeously handsome appearance of a god, he smelt like one too! (whereas they, I imagine, would not be so nice to be near!)

I'll try to locate some more favourite quotes to share.

Kerry

[injest]

I love the character of Bagoas...she took a handful of historical records of his existance and created this incredible person that endured so much yet never grew bitter...

I find myself thinking on what she wrote very often. So many lessons to learn from her...she was a very wise woman...

Glad to meet another fan too!!

[Kerry]

I love the character of Bagoas...she took a handful of historical records of his existance and created this incredible person that endured so much yet never grew bitter...

I find myself thinking on what she wrote very often. So many lessons to learn from her...she was a very wise woman...

Glad to meet another fan too!!

Have you read "Mary Renault - A Biography," by David Sweetman? It's an authorised biography and has lots of lovely pics of Mary and her partner,Julia Mullard. It is published by Harcourt Brace & Co.

Here's another wonderful description of Alexander by Bagoas, from "The Persian Boy":

"He was seemly in sleep, his mouth closed, his breathing silent, his body fresh and sweet. The room smelled of sex and cedarwood, with the tang of salt from the sea. Autumn drew on, the night wind blew from the north. I drew the blanket over him; without waking, he moved to me in the great bed, seeking warmth."

So beautiful.

Kerry

[injest]

One of my favorite things about The Persian Boy is the tender love that Bagoas expresses for Alexander...here is this slave that has spent the last four years being sold to men and as a concubine but he seems so innocent in the love he develops for Alexander...

"But although in my calling I felt as old as time, my heart, which no one had trained, was young, and suddenly it mastered me"

these are the first books I have ever seen that accept homosexuality completely...it is not presented as an 'issue' just a normal part of life...(and isn't it?)

[injest]

Have you read "Mary Renault - A Biography," by David Sweetman? It's an authorised biography and has lots of lovely pics on Mary and her partner,Julia Mullard. It is published by Harcourt Brace & Co.

Here's another wonderful description of Alexander by Bagoas, from "The Persian Boy":

"He was seemly in sleep, his mouth closed, his breathing silent, his body fresh and sweet. The room smelled of sex and cedarwood, with the tang of salt from the sea. Autumn drew on, the night wind blew from the north. I drew the blanket over him; without waking, he moved to me in the great bed, seeking warmth."

So beautiful.

Kerry

no I had not...I was JUST going to ask you if you had ever seen anything on her life! thank you I will order it.

[injest]

The Persian Boy is my very favorite. Do you have a fave?

[injest]

One of the sweetest and most touching scenes she wrote was a scene in "Fire From Heaven"

Alexander and Hephaistion had climbed up on a high roof to talk (they were midteen at the time) They are in love and innocent still and the scene is so tender...to get the entire flavor of it you would have to quote the entire scene...but she captures youthful desire and confusion so expertly...here Hephaistion has his arm draped

"Hephaistion was thinking how fragile his rib cage seemed, how terrible were the warring desires to cherish it and to crush it"

[Kerry]

The Persian Boy is my very favorite. Do you have a fave?

The Persian Boy is my favourite. I've read it many times over the years.

Mary Renault was very ahead of her time in the way she addressed homosexulaity. I'm sure she would agree with you that it shouldn't be an "issue," being gay herself. For example, in her biography of Alexander, "The Nature of Alexander," first published in 1975, comes this quote:

"The certainty is that he never became uxorious. With Hephaestion he remained in love, at a depth where the physical relationship becomes almost irrelevant; and years later Bagoas was still his recognized eromenos. He had been disinhibited, not reversed, and had now achieved the normal Greek bisexuality."

Kerry

[injest]

there is a quote in the front of "The Nature of Alexander" (I don't see my copy right off...may be in my son's room..and I ain't going in there...I value my life and limbs!!  ) but it says in effect that you should judge someone by the standards of their OWN time.

It is interesting to me to see how Alexander is portrayed and how she made such a strong arguement against some of the myths surrounding him. For example the story that he was a raging alcoholic...the facts don't back that charge up...

and how the Athenians worked so hard to destroy his legacy..and why...

[Kerry]

there is a quote in the front of "The Nature of Alexander" (I don't see my copy right off...may be in my son's room..and I ain't going in there...I value my life and limbs!!  ) but it says in effect that you should judge someone by the standards of their OWN time.

It is interesting to me to see how Alexander is portrayed and how she made such a strong arguement against some of the myths surrounding him. For example the story that he was a raging alcoholic...the facts don't back that charge up...

and how the Athenians worked so hard to destroy his legacy..and why...

It would be impossible for an alcoholic to achieve as much as he did at such a young age. Having said that, however, I must say that it is indisputable historical fact that he enjoyed the odd drop of wine!!! Wine was a very strong brew in those days and it was traditional to dilute it with water in the ancient world. The Macedonians were notorious for drinking their wine straight. It is documented that Alexander lost control whilst under the influence of alcohol - specifically when he killed one of his most beloved generals (forget his name). Re the Athenians, well, they hated him. They were such snobs! Everyone who wasn't Athenian was inferior, especially Macedonians!

It's approaching midnight here and I must away to bed. I will post a beautiful description of Hephaistion from "The Nature of Alexander" tomorrow. I look forward to staying in touch.

Kerry