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What do you think makes this movie so romantic?
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: Aussie Chris on May 01, 2006, 09:31:43 pm ---Hey Barb, the "afterglow" scene in the hotel always makes me a little sad for Ennis. Right there and there, lying in Jack's arms, he's so happy and in love. You see him stroke Jacks arm when he confesses that he thought he's never see Jack again after "that punch". And just when Jack talks about redlining it there and asks "how about you", Ennis runs back inside his shell, unable to say anything but reflect on his lot in life. You just want to give him a good shake don't you?
--- End quote ---
Yes, there is a bit of frustration with Ennis's inability to articulate things here in the motel. But, film-Ennis almost exclusively expresses his affection physically... after each of Jack's questions/ comments in the motel Ennis caresses his arm... and he does this especially forcefully when Jack says "Brokeback got us good." But, Ennis does sort of laugh in agreement when Jack talks about redlining it and being so anxious to get there. He also echos Jack's little "four years" comment in the very beginning of the scene. The "I dunno" is pretty frustrating at the same time. Jack doesn't seem concerned by this at this point. I think he understands the part about reading Ennis's physical signals throughout. If nothing else, Jack is very smart and careful about how he approaches Ennis, what he tells him, how he deals with all of Ennis's millions of insecurities... People of these threads have said that Ennis speaks and expresses himself in a sort of code since he's so closeted. Jack becomes extremely good at interpreting all this, though yes Jack certainly makes some mistakes.
It makes me sad that the beautiful mood at the beginning of the "prayer of thanks" scene is broken and made at least sad and worrisome just at the moment when Jack really takes a risk and puts himself out there with his cow and calf operation proposal. It may have been too soon to suggest living together... almost the equivalent of a marriage proposal. But, I guess we need to bear in mind that he doesn't yet know the full extent of Ennis's fear, internalized homophobia and background until the Earl story. Talk about a super romantic scene filled with a million complexities. It goes from sweet, peaceful and simple... to a moment filled with a bit of pressure through Jack's proposal (certainly romantic tension from Jack's perspective)... to Ennis's revelation of his deepest fears... and then to the beautifully sweet and loving resolution of Jack caressing Ennis's face. I also think that this moment of conversation contains Ennis's biggest moment of verbal commitment to Jack (at least while he's alive). When Jack asks how long they'll be together under Ennis's sad rule of only "once in a while"... Ennis replies "for as long as we can ride it". I think this greatly eases the disappointment for Jack. Ennis is essentially saying that he wants to be with Jack for as long as humanly possible. The "there ain't no reigns on this one" comment is awfully romantic too. It's like he's saying he's so in love with Jack that he can't control himself or societal reactions, but he'll try to make this work for as long as he can.
OK, so I'm going on and on... but I have one last comment here (for now ::) ).
I think one of the reasons the movie is soooo romantic is that it's essentially about intimacy and loving someone way beyond anything to do directly with sex. I think this is the point behind the flashback scene and even the way that Proulx writes that scene. They want to be together and cling to one another. The love making is a big part of it... but usually when we see them in moments of physical contact, they're hugging or cradling each other, or kissing rather gently. I think it's very interesting that the motel scene does focus on the "afterglow," the embrace and the conversation and not on the actual "love scene" itself.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: atz75 on May 01, 2006, 11:53:17 pm ---... When Jack asks how long they'll be together under Ennis's sad rule of only "once in a while"... Ennis replies "for as long as we can ride it". I think this greatly eases the disappointment for Jack. Ennis is essentially saying that he wants to be with Jack for as long as humanly possible. The "there ain't no reigns on this one" comment is awfully romantic too. It's like he's saying he's so in love with Jack that he can't control himself or societal reactions, but he'll try to make this work for as long as he can.
--- End quote ---
That's how I read that conversation, too, Amanda. What else could he mean by "if this thing takes hold of us at the wrong place, wrong time" -- what is the "thing"? It's love, or the passionate expression of it -- so powerful that Ennis worries they won't be able to resist showing it, wherever they are.
I know some people feel sad for Jack when Ennis doesn't answer the "how bout you?" question. But I tend to think that's more OUR frustration than Jack's -- we'd sure like to hear Ennis say something nice, but Jack barely seems to notice. In fact his "Brokeback got us good, didn't it" immediately afterward shows that he understands that Brokeback got Ennis good, too, whether he says so or not.
And that's the pattern throughout their relationship. Ennis has ways of expressing his love, they're just not verbal for the most part. But Jack knows how to read them. I never get the sense that Jack is longing for confirmation that Ennis loves him. What he's longing is for Ennis to make a commitment to that love.
Aussie Chris:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on May 02, 2006, 01:12:23 am ---That's how I read that conversation, too, Amanda. What else could he mean by "if this thing takes hold of us at the wrong place, wrong time" -- what is the "thing"? It's love, or the passionate expression of it -- so powerful that Ennis worries they won't be able to resist showing it, wherever they are.
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Um, I don't think "love" is completely the right word in place of "thing" for me - "passion" suites better in my mind (sorry if that's just simantics). I don't think I was necessarily "sad" at Ennis not saying something nice to Jack at this time, actually I think it's in keeping with his lack of thought on the issue, and his caresses of Jack arm speaks volumes anyway. So I agree that this was enough for Jack (at least then).
It's interesting to me that I have very fond feelings towards Ennis when I think about him in this light. Contrastingly though, if we were to have a detailed conversation about how Jack felt, my frustration would probably rule. Makes me think I have an idea of what it might be like to be Libran or maybe I'm thinking Gemini - I get confused about who's supposed to be what... ;)
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Aussie Chris on May 02, 2006, 03:06:04 am ---Um, I don't think "love" is completely the right word in place of "thing" for me - "passion" suites better in my mind (sorry if that's just simantics).
--- End quote ---
Tell you what, Chris, you're right. And it's not just semantics, it's a valid distinction. I'll take that back. What he refers to as "this thing (that) grabs hold of us" is passion, not love.
However, I think he subtly expresses love throughout this scene, from the "prayer of thanks" to the lines Amanda mentioned about "long as we can ride it" and "ain't no reins."
--- Quote --- I don't think I was necessarily "sad" at Ennis not saying something nice to Jack at this time, actually I think it's in keeping with his lack of thought on the issue, and his caresses of Jack arm speaks volumes anyway. So I agree that this was enough for Jack (at least then).
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There's just an ongoing division of opinions on this issue: did Ennis express his love to Jack? I'm in the school that says he did, unmistakably. Believe me, personally I would LOVE to see more endearments from Ennis, verbal or otherwise. They're my favorite parts! But I think limiting them helps define his character.
--- Quote ---It's interesting to me that I have very fond feelings towards Ennis when I think about him in this light. Contrastingly though, if we were to have a detailed conversation about how Jack felt, my frustration would probably rule.
--- End quote ---
That tension is answer factor in what makes the movie so romantic, hunh?
nic:
My take on this question is that it is because we see their relationship portrayed as the ultimate first love and lasting love. It is probably both guys' first (& only) time properly in love, and they fall in love in an idyllic setting where it's just the two of them & nature. The ideal place, making it all the more special even though first love is so special anyway. You feel like there is just you & your lover & nothing else matters. They had pretty much the realisation of that to start with.
Most first loves are doomed to fail because of the circumstances - you're too young, you're on holiday, etc With these two, their love does not abate with time as seen by the reunion kiss. Their love really is a force of nature, it overcomes them. Then they continue to meet, and when they do, it's just them together back with nature. That they have to lie to get there, have limited time & live without each other for the rest of the time pales into comparison when they're together again - a recreation of Brokeback & all that was perfect about it. That continues for the most part untainted by pressures & stresses building up, so it means they never loose that feeling of being so into each other. Just like a long distance relationship for the most part. Lust is very importantly involved too, in that it re-inforces feelings of falling/being in love.
Their love never gets to the stage of having a large component of loving companionship brought about my sharing everyday experiences together. That kind of love is a prvilege to have and when you have it, you still have moments of being in love but that heady feeling of being high on love can't last. Biologically it would be impossible anyway - our brains & nerves would fry from all those chemicals flying around! But who doesn't yearn to feel that high? There's nothing like it, nothing to beat it.
And that's why I think I find BBM so romantic - I associate J & E with falling & being in love. It evokes those feelings again & the passions that fortunately I have experienced in my life. It's a credit to Heath & Jake that they were able to convey it so well, especially to a (mainly) straight woman like myself.
nic
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