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delalluvia:
--- Quote from: starboardlight on May 02, 2006, 12:35:06 pm ---
--- Quote from: delalluvia on May 02, 2006, 08:43:51 am ---To cross a border illegally to better one's life? Um, if they wanted to better their lives, why don't they come here legally? To come to a nation to better one's self and start this experience by breaking the laws of said country, not paying taxes and using up social services isn't the way to do it and is a slap in the face to this country.
--- End quote ---
because it takes money to do it legally, money that they simply don't have. much less the understanding of the US bureaucracy to even comprehend the complex process. Have you looked into what it takes to get a work visa for the US?
--- End quote ---
Bingo! Exactly. Guess what. Sometimes you don't get what you want in life because it's out of your price range. Is it therefore justifiable to obtain it illegally?
Ends justifying the means?
That's a can of worms you don't want to open otherwise there's quite a bit in life that I would like but the price range is out of my league. By this standard, it's OK for me to pursue this desire by any means available, legal or illegal.
I was watching the news and listening to a comment one woman said about keeping her children home so she could show her support and prove to her children that their mother wasn't a 'criminal'.
Then the news went on to comment that the woman had gotten here illegally.
Um, what part of 'breaking the law' concept did she fail to grasp? This flexibility in ethics/morals is what gets my family bashed by uninsured motorists who happened to be illegal aliens because obeying laws of traffic and getting insurance is something they can take or leave when it suits their purpose.
sparkle_motion:
--- Quote from: delalluvia on May 02, 2006, 09:29:50 pm ---
--- Quote from: starboardlight on May 02, 2006, 12:35:06 pm ---
--- Quote from: delalluvia on May 02, 2006, 08:43:51 am ---To cross a border illegally to better one's life? Um, if they wanted to better their lives, why don't they come here legally? To come to a nation to better one's self and start this experience by breaking the laws of said country, not paying taxes and using up social services isn't the way to do it and is a slap in the face to this country.
--- End quote ---
because it takes money to do it legally, money that they simply don't have. much less the understanding of the US bureaucracy to even comprehend the complex process. Have you looked into what it takes to get a work visa for the US?
--- End quote ---
Bingo! Exactly. Guess what. Sometimes you don't get what you want in life because it's out of your price range. Is it therefore justifiable to obtain it illegally?
Ends justifying the means?
That's a can of worms you don't want to open otherwise there's quite a bit in life that I would like but the price range is out of my league. By this standard, it's OK for me to pursue this desire by any means available, legal or illegal.
I was watching the news and listening to a comment one woman said about keeping her children home so she could show her support and prove to her children that their mother wasn't a 'criminal'.
Then the news went on to comment that the woman had gotten here illegally.
Um, what part of 'breaking the law' concept did she fail to grasp? This flexibility in ethics/morals is what gets my family bashed by uninsured motorists who happened to be illegal aliens because obeying laws of traffic and getting insurance is something they can take or leave when it suits their purpose.
--- End quote ---
There's a difference between wanting a more expensive wardrobe/car/house/electronics and wanting to move to another country where your children might not be in danger of dying of starvation and where your children will have a chance in life.
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: sparkle_motion on May 02, 2006, 09:44:03 pm ---
--- Quote from: delalluvia on May 02, 2006, 09:29:50 pm ---
--- Quote from: starboardlight on May 02, 2006, 12:35:06 pm ---
--- Quote from: delalluvia on May 02, 2006, 08:43:51 am ---To cross a border illegally to better one's life? Um, if they wanted to better their lives, why don't they come here legally? To come to a nation to better one's self and start this experience by breaking the laws of said country, not paying taxes and using up social services isn't the way to do it and is a slap in the face to this country.
--- End quote ---
because it takes money to do it legally, money that they simply don't have. much less the understanding of the US bureaucracy to even comprehend the complex process. Have you looked into what it takes to get a work visa for the US?
--- End quote ---
Bingo! Exactly. Guess what. Sometimes you don't get what you want in life because it's out of your price range. Is it therefore justifiable to obtain it illegally?
Ends justifying the means?
That's a can of worms you don't want to open otherwise there's quite a bit in life that I would like but the price range is out of my league. By this standard, it's OK for me to pursue this desire by any means available, legal or illegal.
I was watching the news and listening to a comment one woman said about keeping her children home so she could show her support and prove to her children that their mother wasn't a 'criminal'.
Then the news went on to comment that the woman had gotten here illegally.
Um, what part of 'breaking the law' concept did she fail to grasp? This flexibility in ethics/morals is what gets my family bashed by uninsured motorists who happened to be illegal aliens because obeying laws of traffic and getting insurance is something they can take or leave when it suits their purpose.
--- End quote ---
There's a difference between wanting a more expensive wardrobe/car/house/electronics and wanting to move to another country where your children might not be in danger of dying of starvation and where your children will have a chance in life.
--- End quote ---
sparkle,
Perhaps, and this is just a thought, if they're lving in such terrible conditions, maybe they shouldn't have had children. I mean, that's what other people do. If I can hardly feed myself, why would I want to reproduce and have even MORE mouths to feed?
And also, perhaps in this country, we want to have $$ so we don't starve in the streets since we're working at a job that barely pays the bills let alone leaves any $ for a permanent home or retirement. Yes, some people in this country end up on the streets as well, despite all the opportunities and good education.
That's a pretty good goal IMO. What do you think? Is that worthy of doing something illegal to keep this from happening? You tell me.
JennyC:
Is it just me or it’s really hot here? :)
littledarlin:
--- Quote from: JennyC on May 02, 2006, 10:01:34 pm ---Is it just me or it’s really hot here? :)
--- End quote ---
lol! so much to respond to, i don't know where to begin.
--- Quote ---Perhaps, and this is just a thought, if they're lving in such terrible conditions, maybe they shouldn't have had children. I mean, that's what other people do. If I can hardly feed myself, why would I want to reproduce and have even MORE mouths to feed?
--- End quote ---
del, that makes perfect sense, and i totally agree with it, but things don't always work out that way. some people get married, buy a house, have kids, and then lose their jobs. or run themselves up with debt and file for bankruptcy. or one of the parents goes crazy and kills someone. or one of the parents gets eaten by a shark. i mean we can plan as much as possible, and most people probably don't plan, things just happen and they work with what they have. people should not be punished for things that happen that are out of their control.
as far as illegal immigrants being, well, illegal, if we enforced every law, this country would not be in the state it is now. but instead CEOs run companies to the ground and make out like bandits, corporations outsource illegally do avoid paying taxes, there's fraud, embezzelment, you name it corporate america has done it. but thanks to lobbyists and no-bid contracts and so on it usually ends up going under the radar, unless you're a woman (see: martha stewart).
and we are talking billions up here. BILLIONS. but people don't care about that. they care about the mothers on welfare, and the immigrants getting healthcare on their dime. if we had any say of where out tax dollars went, then maybe an argument about taxpayers money would hold up, but we don't. i'd rather have my tax dollars going to schools, immigrants, and welfare than war-mongering, churches, and paying right-wingers paychecks. but what do i do? quit my job? live on the street? as a form of protest? props to anyone who can do that, but i can't.
nipith got everything right. i used to wonder the same thing myself when i was younger, why not just come legally. but when you've been around enough immigrants, you begin to see how hard it is.
i don't even want to TRAVEL to a non-english speaking country before knowing at least the basics of the language. but that's just me, and some countries do require you to speak the fluent language, but we can not force people to learn english. that's what translators are for. if someone doesn't want to learn, or have the resources to learn english, they should have a say in the matter. would learning the national language enhance your experience? yes. we have to remember that most illegal immigrants come here without high school education, let alone college education. again, we don't know WHY, every person is different. i dropped out of high school because i hated it. i couldn't afford to go to college, and i was born here!
anyway, back to the argument of "just don't do it". if i had a dollar for every pregnant teenage american i've met i'd be rich. so few people plan families, they just happen. it's the middle class american way. someone brought up native americans, i mean come on! by these standards we should all be speaking the dialects for our regions. and the vietnamese immigrants! my second family immigrated from vietnam illegally, it took them years, but they finally became legal. but shit! if we lived in vietnam after what we did to that country, getting papers would be the last thing on my mind.
there are SO many issues with this that will take forever to correct. we just have to remember that we are all human, and as long as we ain't hurtin' nobody, there's no reason to hate eachother. the land doesn't belong to any one person more than the next, regardless of where they're from.
sorry, i feel bad. you all articulate responses, i rant >:(
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