Our BetterMost Community > Chez Tremblay
JACK DID IT: What About YOU?
Sheyne:
--- Quote from: rtprod on May 03, 2006, 10:43:55 am ---Great stories everyone. I've got a quick one -- how about flirting with a really cute gay guy that turns out to be...a "soft butch" lesbian?
Now THAT one has happened to me.
;D
rt
--- End quote ---
Oh rt, you poor bugger. Gender reversed - same thing. I was looking this beautiful girl at a once-classy gay hangout, the Wickham (Ray knows exACTly what I mean about once-classy... lol) and just when I was in the process of wondering whether she was gay or just hanging at a gay CLUB to avoid being hit on by drunk guys, "she" asked the bar guy for a bottle of water and "she" turned out to be a guy in drag. Most convincing drag queen I've ever seen. I swear he was a she.
Note to self: always check gender of perv by accidently bumping crotch with back of hand. :o
Front-Ranger:
Of course I agree with you in principle, TJ. But rt's question was "What [kind of flirting] works?" and this is what I've found, to my amazement, works. You would think that if you treated men badly they would be turned off, but the exact opposite is often the case! This worked for Jack and Ennis too. Jack hung back from approaching Lureen and what happened? She literally threw herself at him. And Ennis' first reaction to Jack was to rebuff his approach by lowering his hat brim. He went on from there to bring up his "dumb-ass missing" terrible musicianship on the harmonica, and repeat his dad's opinion of rodeo types as f**k-ups. Maybe the way this worked is when Ennis was respectful and complimentary, it had a double effect on Jack. Nevertheless, Ennis' pot shots didn't deter Jack one bit; in fact it encouraged him. I've seen this in men time and time again.
TJ:
In the USA, calling someone a "bugger" has been considered the same as calling them a "faggot."
TJ:
How Annie Proulx's Jack Twist and Ennis Del Mar reacted to each other in the parking lot at Aguirre's trailer is not known. They shook hands inside the trailer in her version. Forgive me if I am repeating myself in this dicussion, please.
We have to realize that the movie was not a produced by out of the closet male-gendered homosexuals nor was the screenplay adaptation written by openly gay men.
I actually don't call what was seen in the movie the same thing as when a woman flirts with a man or vice versa. I have had women flirt with me in public places lots of times.
But, in the way that Jake Gyllenhaal portrayed Jack Twist and his use of facial expressions and body language, implies that Jack had a below-the-belt, behind-the-pubic-bone, in-the-area-of-the-prostate physiological sexual attraction (PSA) feelings directed toward Ennis Del Mar. One has absolutely no control over when one experiences those PSAs sensations; they just happen without warning and they tell the one having them that the other person might be sexually compatible and possibly in one's comfort zone.
While the movie Jack at first seems to size up whom that guy leaning against the trailer wall is as soon as he gets out of his GMC pickup truck, the way he acts after that is not what I call flirting. Jack is acting according to what he feels down inside his body.
And being a man who feels that he understands same-gender PSAs and why they happen, I would say that the movie Ennis did not rebuff Jack by lowering the brim of his hat; he was doing his version of "I am attracted to you, too: but, I don't want to seem that obvious" act.
I know that Ennis did not understand how he experienced those PSAs directed toward Jack in his presence and he called them "that thing that grabs us in the wrong place at the wrong time and we're dead" queer feelings.
While women, no matter what their sexual orientation, can agree or disagree with me in what I consider to be fact or related to my POV, I don't feel that women don't understand openly gay men much better than heteroseuxal men and heterosexual women understand each other. Some women to have special insight to certain facets related to a gay man's makeup; but, they still have to rely on what a gay man tells them to know why they have such insight.
Oh, if you will notice I am also open about my gender in my forum profile. But, while human beings are generalized as either male or female when it comes to identifying by a 'sex (gender)," there is two other genders which are in existence with humans, Intersex (which used to be commonly called "hermaphrodite") for double-gendered persons and "asexual" as in having no gender known at all, but might assumed to be female because of the lack of external genitals.
To wrap this posting installment of my up here, I think that Ennis (no matter what version) was actually hesitant when it came to meeting new people and it was related to his lack of self-esteem and the hard life he had growing up. And because his father spiritually and psychologically abused him by taking him and his brother, K.E., to see the beaten to a pulp with a tire iron mutilated body of Earl, he was afraid of being an "Earl," too and possibly becoming a part of a same-sex ranching couple.
twistedude:
I stuck my head in the TV room at the Neoropsychiatric Institutue, where i was becasuse I was nuts,. and Bob was, because he'd learned to act schizophrenic to avoid going to Viet Nam, and I saw him, and i said "Are you from Hyde Park>" (university area of Chicago). The rest is getting to be very old history.
I'm very shy, and I never flirt.
I, too, find Jack's "PSA" reaction obvious as hell. There are intelligent people who don't see it at all though. BTW PSA is the most desirable and in reality the least intellignet grader of baseball cards, so whenevere I see "PSA," I think, "idiots!" Glad I have something else to think those letters in connectrion with now! Such a lovely idiot!
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