Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by beeloo03 (Mon Apr 24 2006 08:41:27 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
I watched the Jack/Randall scenes again this morning on the DVD, and I'm still not certain that anything really went on between them. I must be the minority, though, because so many others think so.
When the guys were outside on the bench talking, and Randall mentioned them going up to the fishing cabin, Jack looked over at him and back, and had this look on his face like he was thinking of nothing other than Ennis at that very moment. I didn't get the impression he was interested in Randall at all, or that going to the cabin sounded appealing to him.......he just looked as if the thought of "fishing up in the woods" reminded him of Ennis and how much he loved and missed him. It seemed to flood his mind with memories.
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by kudzudaddy (Mon Apr 24 2006 08:50:10 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
If that were all there was to it, I might agree with you. But then you have Jack's dad telling Ennis all about Jack bringing Randall up to work the place. I think Jack "settled" for Randall and was trying to move on with his life. That's got to be the most crushing blow for Ennis. Would he have dumped Randall in a heartbeat if he got the call from Ennis...? Ah, the endless pleasure of speculation...
"...careless where the next bright bolt might fall."
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by beeloo03 (Mon Apr 24 2006 08:53:32 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
That's true.......never thought about the comment Jack's dad made.
I just found Randall to be so unappealing (from a woman's point of view, anyway! LOL) that I'm probably trying to convince myself that Jack would never start up something with him.
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by VerdiGuy (Tue Apr 25 2006 16:28:52 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
Oh, honey, I think Randall is better-looking than Ennis!
Anyway, maybe you have to be gay to get the Jack-Randall thing. Texas being what it is - and even more so back in the 1970s when the scene is set - these two would have to play a very careful, very subtle cat-and-mouse game just to let each other know that there was interest.
I have participated in conversations that were just like this, except for the fact that neither of us was married.
Here's the way I read the scene. Randall quickly becomes interested in Jack, and tries to let him know it. Jack starts to pick up on Randall's signals, but tries to pretend that he doesn't see them - he's probably thinking about Ennis, and about how dangerous it could be to pursue a relationship with someone right in his own town. Once the two men are alone outside, the proposition becomes more open. Listen to Randall's tone of voice: his offer about the cabin is positively *loaded* with insinuation that they wouldn't be doing much "fishing" on the kind of trip that he's proposing. A straight man looking for an actual fishing buddy wouldn't have paused so much, wouldn't have been so tense, and wouldn't have made his voice sound so sultry there. When Jack looks away, I think he's weighing things in his mind, considering the offer. The wives come back before he can commit one way or the other, but I take some of Jack's dialogue in the final camping sequence and some of Jack's father's dialogue during Ennis' visit as putting the period on this argument. I suppose you could read it all another way, but it's clear to me that Jack does eventually get something going with Randall.
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by kellyjt (Sun Oct 15 2006 14:11:24 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
I'm too lazy/busy to read this whole thread right now, so please excuse me if I am repeating or reiterating stuff already posted. Anyhow, I totally agree with you, VerdiGuy, and want to add that you should go back and look at the scene and notice how Randall reacts when he hears Lashawn's voice when she exits the building. It's a stunned, "straighten up" look, like Mama's here so I better be good. . . hope she didn't see me being bad. I don't know how else to say it, but look and I think you'll see what I'm talking about.
I'm the type of guy that says, "The puddin' is delicious." -- LL Cool J
[Post deleted]
UPDATED Mon May 1 2006 00:38:20
This message has been deleted by the poster
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by Ellemeno (Sat Apr 29 2006 23:41:33 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
I always wonder if part of the look on Jack's face while Randall is hitting on him on the bench is, "Oh my god, am I that obvious? If this stranger can see I'm queer, how many other people can tell?" I think it's foreshadowing of his death.
Ellemeno
My favorite BBM sites:
IMDb and
www.bettermost.net/forum Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by littlewing1957 (Mon Apr 24 2006 09:09:04 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
I'm one of those in the minority who feel that Jack DID NOT have an affair with Randall. There is no real evidence that such an affair happened. As far as Jack's remarks to his father about bringing someone else up to the ranch, well, Jack could have said those things to save face. Ennis wouldn't come to Lightning Flats with him, so he could have invented the story about the ranch hand, especially since his dad did need the help, and Jack never provided it. For all we know, Jack may have found someone else to go to the ranch, but that relationship may have been platonic. We don't really know. Of course, I could be totally off-base here. I just don't think Jack had something going with Randall.
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by catglith (Mon Apr 24 2006 09:32:31 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
UPDATED Sun Jun 4 2006 14:23:24
I posted these thoughts on another thread, but it pretty much applies here as well:
IF Jack did have a relationship with Randall that went beyond convenient sex (which i don't think it did) then Randall would have already been in the picture before the lake scene in a meaningful way in that he would have had a claim on Jack's emotions like Ennis did (although nowhere near as strong). And i never got this impression. When Jack argues with Ennis, you can see the loneliness, rejection, hurt etc. He was in deep pain, and surely after being with Randall too for something like 3-5 years this would have been a release or help to Jack. That fight shows it wasn't, if anything it made him sink lower because it made him depressed to realise that his life had been reduced to only seeing Ennis 2-3 times year and having to get by using some guy he felt nothing for. Lureen mentions on the phone Jack drank alot - this, like Randall, was another form of escapism for the pain of not being with Ennis. And is furthur evidence of his unhappiness. And why was he unhappy? Because he was trapped in a life he hated and could only see the person he loved 2/3 times year, and he couldn't get out of this situation because he couldn't quit Ennis, and no one else could ever compare to him.
After the final lake scene, Jack went up to Lightning Flat frustrated, hurt, upset, and probably aware he should move on. So he mentioned maybe once on his first day, briefly and half heartedly bringing 'another fellow' (Randall?) up there. Sometimes it helps to persuade yourself to do something if you have a plan and say it out loud and discuss it with others. But i think he knew even as he was saying it (and his mother did too) it was never going to happen. Not just because of the nature of his relationship with Randall, but also because he knew he'd keep going back to Ennis. Some people have pointed out that maybe Jack thought enough is enough. But i don't buy that, it wasn't in Jack's nature to walk away from the people he loved the most. Look at how year after year he kept returning to help his father, despite the fact he'd abused and rejected Jack for years. If Jack hadn't died, he'd still have returned year after year, because he loved him and wanted his approval. Translate this to his relationship with Ennis, who had disappointed Jack time and again, but still, even a good 9/10 years after the divorce Jack kept going back to see Ennis, because he wanted Ennis and needed his love.
The comment Jack made to his parents about Randall shows (whether he meant it or not) he had considered, on some level, leaving Ennis. He was at breaking point. But i really believe he wouldn't have made any serious plans or done so without meeting with Ennis one more time (even if it had been to break it off cleanly and with care). Besides, i think because of Jack's frustration there was actually hope after their final meeting that things could change - Ennis broke up with Cassie and sent Jack the postcard, revealing Ennis was making small steps in attempting to be with Jack. And Jack had got to the point where he could tell Ennis like it was, and what he needed for their relationship to continue.
What's more, i think Jack would have had to have had this kind of talk with Ennis to have had a life with Randall anyway (IF he'd been serious about starting one). As Annie wrote, and Jack's face shows, as Ennis leaves "nothing changed....nothing resolved". Jack could not have left Ennis without the definate knowledge things with Ennis could never develop, that there really was no chance of things changing. And after the fight, there WAS a small chance things could, even if it arose through an ultimatum for Ennis by Jack - make more commitment, or i'll leave you. Jack had seen the effect of his words ("i wish i knew how to quit you") had on Ennis - he physically broke down, showing he still loved and wanted to be with Jack, so such an ultimatum could have worked (IMO, i think it would have, Ennis had begun to change, slowly).
****Also, the DVD was released over here today (yay!) and i've just finished watching it. I watched the scene where Jack's father mentions the 'other fellow' very closely, and i honestly think the SOB was lying. The way he says it...i just got this vibe. Look at his eyes, they're shifty. At the very least, if Jack had brought up the idea of bringing up someone else, i think he knew his son wasn't serious when he mentioned it, and he told Ennis that to hurt him when he seemed so happy when he learnt that Jack talked about him with his parents.
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by pkdetroit (Mon Apr 24 2006 10:06:13 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
I just watched the DVD too. I noticed this time that when Randall talks about the cabin that he has access to Jack does not look at him. He keeps his eyes away from Randall, sitting on his right side, almost turning his gaze to his left. The impression that I got was that Jack was ignoring any implied invitation, remaining completely noncommittal to Randall's subtle suggestions.
Also, it is not clear just exactly who John Twist is talking about, all he says is a "neighbor". Could be Randall, could be nobody.
Today I am thinking that Jack was fooling around with Randall, he says in that night scene that he is having an affair with a neighbor's wife, why at that time in his life would he start having sex with a woman (other than Lureen) when we know he can go to Mexico?
"It was the Summer that Sebastian and I went to the Incantadas"
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by littlewing1957 (Mon Apr 24 2006 10:31:10 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
<<Today I am thinking that Jack was fooling around with Randall, he says in that night scene that he is having an affair with a neighbor's wife, why at that time in his life would he start having sex with a woman (other than Lureen) when we know he can go to Mexico? >>
Jack told Ennis this because he could not very well admit to having an affair with a man (if in fact, he did have such an affair). Jack knew that Ennis would hit the roof if he knew jack was seeing another man. He could have a relationship with another woman: that is not cheating, as women were only a cover.
After watching this scene and paying close attention, I believe Jack told Ennis about seeing a rancher's wife only after Ennis' admission about cassie. For some reason I get the impression that Jack didn't want Ennis with Cassie and told him about the Rancher's wife as a way to get back at him. Again, I could be wrong, but this is my take.
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by catglith (Mon Apr 24 2006 10:38:47 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
"For some reason I get the impression that Jack didn't want Ennis with Cassie and told him about the Rancher's wife as a way to get back at him. Again, I could be wrong, but this is my take."
Never thought about it like that littlewing1957. Jack was always possessive about Ennis - the "you and Alma that's a life" line, and notice how Jack looks jealous when Ennis refuses to move to Texas cos of his girls.
I think he was also irritated (to say the least) that Ennis was in a relationship he clearly didn't give a damn about, when Jack would have been willing to leave his whole life behind to be with him in an instant. IMO, he could have felt pi**ed off at that, so brought up the veiled comment about having an affiar with Randall as a retaliation. Maybe.
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by littlewing1957 (Mon Apr 24 2006 10:45:38 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
<<IMO, he could have felt pi**ed off at that, so brought up the veiled comment about having an affiar with Randall as a retaliation. Maybe.>>
Notice also that right after this admission, Jack almost tearfully tells Ennis how much he misses him, effectively admitting that life without him is hell.
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by pkdetroit (Mon Apr 24 2006 11:28:58 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
<<Notice also that right after this admission, Jack almost tearfully tells Ennis how much he misses him, effectively admitting that life without him is hell.>>
Taking into consideration that he prefaces that confession with "to tell you the truth" it is almost as if he is saying it is a lie about the "wife"
But like I said, today I think it is indeed Randall he is having an affair with , tomorrow I may be thinking, "no, Jack is just considering it, but has not actually made any moves yet". Just like somedays I think to myself "it was just an accident" then other days "he was murdered!"
What I do know for sure is that every time I watch Ennis crumble, sobbing saying "I am nothing" I want to lie down and never move. That scene tears me up inside.
"It was the Summer that Sebastian and I went to the Incantadas"
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by littlewing1957 (Mon Apr 24 2006 12:14:20 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
<<Taking into consideration that he prefaces that confession with "to tell you the truth" it is almost as if he is saying it is a lie about the "wife">>
Yes, my thoughts all along.
<<What I do know for sure is that every time I watch Ennis crumble, sobbing saying "I am nothing" I want to lie down and never move. That scene tears me up inside.>>
Yes, indeed. But at the same time it is heartening to see that Jack could not bear to see Ennis in pain. After all Ennis put him through, Jack loved him, continued to be his "ministering angel."
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by catglith (Mon Apr 24 2006 15:36:41 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
"Taking into consideration that he prefaces that confession with "to tell you the truth" it is almost as if he is saying it is a lie about the "wife">
His exact words are "tell you what...truth is (ominous pause) sometimes etc..."
Some people have commented on the fact that they thought Jack was going to admit to an 'affair' with Randall after "truth is..." but i have never read the line like that. IMO, he is probably having a casual sex 'relationship'(if anything) with Randall to fill the void, and as a way to get through the pain, of not seeing Ennis. So when Jack admits to having an 'affair' with Randall, using his wife as a cover up, i think in those few seconds that follow he's reflecting on his 'relationship' with Randall. Almost to explain why he's cheating on him with another guy (even though Ennis doesn't know that) - because he misses him so much he's driven to finding solace and release from the pain anywhere he can. And that is why he says "truth is", it's his way of saying "the reason why is".
So what Jack could be saying is "tell you what (tries to make sure Ennis is really listening)...truth is ("the reason why is") - ominous pause (tries to find the exact words)- ...sometimes i miss you so much i can hardly stand it (..which is why i sometimes sleep with another guy, to find some comfort somewhere)". Hope that makes sense!
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by kthstewart (Mon Apr 24 2006 16:23:49 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
I don't think Jack loved Randall or even liked him that much but Randall seemed to be very fond of Jack. After or maybe before the lake scene between Jack and Ennis I think Jack might be having some casual sex with Randall. I think it is Randall instead of LaShawn that Jack was talking about when he said he was having an affair with a ranch foreman's wife. Ennis only laughed about that as he didn't feel threatened by a woman. Had Jack told the truth about Randall Ennis would have exploded.
Ennis cutting out the August meeting and waiting until the last day of Jack and Ennis' get together to tell Jack finally caused the easy going Jack to explode. I know Jack put up with a lot that most people would not have put up with including Alma for Ennis. I think after Jack went to Lightning Flat to see his parents he probably was as down as any one person could be. He very well could have told his dad that he was going to bring a ranch neighbor of his up to whip the ranch into shape. I think it was probably Randall that he was talking about. I believe he did tell his dad that bit of information or his dad could not have thought up that story by himself.
I don't know if Jack could have ever left Ennis for anyone but especially for Randall. There was no chemistry that Jack had toward Randall but I think he may have been having an affair with him. If you believe that Jack was killed by men with tire irons then it is possible that Jack was killed while trying to get back home from a visit with Randall at Roy Taylor's cabin.
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by RolerSknGrl (Mon Oct 2 2006 10:25:18 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
<< If you believe that Jack was killed by men with tire irons then it is possible that Jack was killed while trying to get back home from a visit with Randall at Roy Taylor's cabin.>>
I SO AGREE, I was confused about Jack being murdered or if the tire story did happen...I saw some hestitancy in his wife's voice when she was talking to Ennis. I think Jack was heading back from a rendevous' with Randall, and maybe Randall felt threatened with his relationship with Jack, and before anything got out to threaten his existance he elimated Jack...and they set up the tire thing as a cover up- and got off scott clean.
That's what I think.
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by littlewing1957 (Mon Apr 24 2006 16:33:53 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
<<So what Jack could be saying is "tell you what (tries to make sure Ennis is really listening)...truth is ("the reason why is") - ominous pause (tries to find the exact words)- ...sometimes i miss you so much i can hardly stand it (..which is why i sometimes sleep with another guy, to find some comfort somewhere)". Hope that makes sense!>>
Yes, it makes sense, but I don't totally agree. I still have serious trouble believing Jack slept with Randall, but that's just me.
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by catglith (Tue Apr 25 2006 15:11:55 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
littlewing1957 i'm pretty sure there was nothing going on too! I was just trying to say that if there was something going on between Jack and Randall, then this is one way to interpret the "sometimes i miss you so much" line.
Someone commented on another thread that LaShawn tells Lureen that they'll have to dance with themselves because their husbands don't have (paraphrasing) "an inch of rhythm between them", and how she read that as a reflection on Jack and Randall's 'relationship'. She said this was evident in the uncomfortable and stilted conversation outside on the bench, and compared it with the easy and relaxed banter between Jack and Ennis. I just thought that was an interesting comparison with Jack and Ennis, and their natural bond. Which is why, IMO, if Jack and Randall had some kind of 'relationship', it was convenience, and never could be anything more than that. Not only because i have doubts that Randall would be into Jack deeply, but also because Jack was still totally in love with Ennis, and devoted to him. He wasn't in a place emotionally to even consider another man in that way, all his thoughts ultimately were with Ennis.
As such, if it existed, any 'relationship' with Randall was no threat to Ennis - Jack would have left his life in Texas, and the people in it, in a shot if Ennis had said the word.
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by pkdetroit (Wed Apr 26 2006 06:59:59 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
catglith writes "His exact words are "tell you what...truth is (ominous pause) sometimes etc..."
Mea culpa, my bad misquote...
Funny thing is, when watching the DVD the other day and Jack said that line, for a split second I believed he was going to tell Ennis about Randall Reminded me of the time while watching an excellent production of Romeo and Juliet at Stratford in Ontario I was thinking that maybe this time the friar would get to Romeo in time to tell him about Juliet's plan.
"It was the Summer that Sebastian and I went to the Incantadas"
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by korgriff (Wed Apr 26 2006 17:09:40 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
OH MY GOD!!!! I totally agree. You put it so perfectly!!!! I think that Jack whom we know from the scene that after the divorce he went to Ennis and was refused he took off to mexico for some solace so we know that Jack will act before thinking. I think that you are right that he just said that to his father in anger. And i think that when confronted with Ennis, whom John Twist probably thought of as a ghost after all that time, he realized that the two men could have come to his ranch and fixed it all up and so when Ennis comes hes angry and decides to hurt him and so tells him about Jack saying there was another person he was going to bring.
I always feel so bad for Jack when he tells Ennis that he wishes he knew how to quit him and Ennis breaks down. He finally gets the nerve to say it and Ennis breaks down and he feels so bad he comforts him but then he has to deal with his own feelings. He's always the giver.
"...you got a better idea?" Ennis
"I did once." Jack
[Post deleted]
UPDATED Sat Apr 29 2006 06:02:49
This message has been deleted by the poster
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by Jen_Gyllenhaal (Tue Apr 25 2006 16:30:32 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
That's what I thought. Except I didn't think Jack WOULD go.
GIVE JAKE GYLLENHAAL THE OSCAR! (Zodiac)
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by catglith (Tue Apr 25 2006 16:41:31 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
"That's what I thought. Except I didn't think Jack WOULD go."
Jack wouldn't go where?
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by Jen_Gyllenhaal (Tue Apr 25 2006 16:45:46 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
With Randall.
GIVE JAKE GYLLENHAAL THE OSCAR! (Zodiac)
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by catglith (Tue Apr 25 2006 16:56:30 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
Ah. Well there is sooo much debate on this. Some people think Jack left Ennis and moved on to Randall, some believe he was just a convenient casual sex partner, and others just don't believe any kind of relationship existed at all.
Whether something happened between them or not, what's important is that Jack still wanted to be with Ennis and loved him until the end. I don't think i've come across anybody who disagrees with that after 3 months of visiting this board! IMO, if there was a 'relationship' on whatever level with Randall, Jack didn't really have any deep emotional ties to him, and it didn't make him happy. He drank alot and kept returning to Ennis. Randall was only ever a way to fulfil his sexual needs until he could see Ennis.
(Oh and VerdiGuy, Ennis is sooooooooo much better looking than Randall. I remember when i first saw Randall and he was flirting with Jack and i was like mate, you have no chance, Jack has ENNIS, you don't even come close, lol.)
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by tillerman-1 (Tue Apr 25 2006 17:45:51 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
It might be just me but I don't think Randall looked trustworthy.
There was just something about him that made me feel uneasy.
( no its not because of the suppose affair that was to come later,( I felt this way the first time I saw the movie and didn't know that was coming)and even now when I see the movie I feel the same way)
In other posts people have said that Randall was Jacks type because he was simular in style and colouring as Ennis. I can't see it myself.
Randall is hot
by Turquine (Tue Apr 25 2006 18:33:46 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
Are you female, catglith? Because I'm wondering Randall is more of a man's man or something. When he appeared on the screen, me and the guy I was seeing the film with exchanged glances of appreciation. Randall is so damn hot! My friends (all bears, basically) agreed. Heath is okay but I wouldn't say he's really very attractive.
Re: Randall is hot
by catglith (Wed Apr 26 2006 13:18:40 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
Yeah, i'm female. I guess it's the whole beard thing. That and the fact i dislike him on principle, lol.
Re: Randall is hot
by tillerman-1 (Wed Apr 26 2006 16:05:59 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
Here is what leads me to believe that Jack had nothing to do with Randall.
In the short story Jacks dad says , this spring he's got another ones going to come up here with him and build a place and help run the ranch, - some ranch neighbour of his from down in Texas-, He dosen't say its a fellow so it could just as easily be a ranch foremans wife Jack was going to leave Lureen for.
Besides Jack could have been just talking because was still angry from his fight with Ennis.
I can't see Jack's dad accepting Ennis there let alone some other guy so I doubt that Jack would all of a sudden start talking about another fellow.
As to Randall being hot. I don't go for blonds but even I would pick Ennis over him. YUCK.......
Re: Randall is hot
by catglith (Wed Apr 26 2006 16:14:14 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
"Here is what leads me to believe that Jack had nothing to do with Randall.
In the short story Jacks dad says , this spring he's got another ones going to come up here with him and build a place and help run the ranch, - some ranch neighbour of his from down in Texas-, He dosen't say its a fellow so it could just as easily be a ranch foremans wife Jack was going to leave Lureen for.
Besides Jack could have been just talking because was still angry from his fight with Ennis.
I can't see Jack's dad accepting Ennis there let alone some other guy so I doubt that Jack would all of a sudden start talking about another fellow.
As to Randall being hot. I don't go for blonds but even I would pick Ennis over him. YUCK....... "
tillerman-1, I LOVE your posts!! That last line, LMAO!!!! Please keep them coming!
RAndall is definetly a hot, red hot...Texas Daddybear
by balrog_ressurected_again (Tue Aug 8 2006 20:43:28 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
***As to Randall being hot. I don't go for blonds but even I would pick Ennis over him. YUCK....... " ***
Well, looks like there is a difference of opinion here. Randall was one of the hottest guys in the film. Looks like some of the gay boys here are bear luvrs. I sure am.
I'll take beef, beard, bald head, and beer belly any day. ( although Randall looked built not bovine.)
Jake sure is cute too and I wouldn't have to be asked twice if he decided to sign my dance card.
Ennis just ain't my type.
Begone trolls...
Re: RAndall is definetly a hot, red hot...Texas Daddybear
by spiceylife (Wed Aug 9 2006 03:09:33 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
UPDATED Wed Aug 9 2006 04:21:39
Well, looks like there is a difference of opinion here. Randall was one of the hottest guys in the film. Looks like some of the gay boys here are bear luvrs. I sure am.
I'll take beef, beard, bald head, and beer belly any day. ( although Randall looked built not bovine.)
Jake sure is cute too and I wouldn't have to be asked twice if he decided to sign my dance card. []
Hey, Balrog.
I'm probably one of very few straight women to kind of agree with you on Randall. He looks good & there was something attractive in his quiet, gentle manner, but then he would pull out that very direct look of intent towards Jack. Like it! Clean-shaven for me, though. You can't really go past either Jack or Ennis (or both) for most females. Jack looks great but preferably without the moustache (too much scratch), and Ennis any way he comes!
Ya might wanna watch it therre - I have a low startle point.
[Post deleted]
This message has been deleted by the poster
[Post deleted]
This message has been deleted by the poster
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by tillerman-1 (Tue Apr 25 2006 16:52:11 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
--- Me again--- saying I don't believe there was any relationship with Randall. Jack bearly even acknowledged him....however while he was dancing with Lashawn he seemed very interested in her. He payed attention to her constant talking and even smiled a time or two.
So again I say he could have had something going on with the ranch foremans wife.
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by kthstewart (Sun Apr 30 2006 01:20:49 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
Jack's dad didn't make up the story of what Jack had told his parents that spring after his fight with Ennis at the lake. Maybe Jack was just hurt and needed to lash out at Ennis over his frustrations with Ennis never giving him a commitment. I also believe that it was Randall instead of LaShawn that Jack told Ennis about after Ennis told Jack that he was putting the blocks on Cassie. I could just see LaShawn at the Twist's ranch trying to lick that ranch into shape. I doubt that she could even split wood but she might have talked Jack's parents to death which in his dad's case might not have been a bad thing. lol
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by Pursy (Tue Apr 25 2006 17:02:46 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
I think at the lake scene it was Randall not a rancher's wife Jack was fooling around with. Ennis understood this subconsciously and that's why his reaction to Mexico was so severe. He flat out told him don't let me know.....
Jack and Randall were making eye contact before he danced with his wife. He's not Jack new love but the correct sexual match at a convenient place. I picked up no warmth or affection.
Being a hopeless romantic I think the post card from Ennis about November would have Jack driving back to BBM. Also I would love to slap his nasty,creepy father for mentioning "then there was another fellow..." to Ennis. That man was so hateful I can hardly look at him.
"We die only once, and for such a long time."~Molière~
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by catglith (Tue Apr 25 2006 17:12:43 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
"Also I would love to slap his nasty,creepy father for mentioning "then there was another fellow..." to Ennis. That man was so hateful I can hardly look at him."
Fully with you there. I HATE that man. Also, i dislike Randall on principle.
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by BannerHill (Tue Apr 25 2006 17:49:26 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
I think Randall was kind of cute in a great big bear kind of way. You'd think he wouldn't be the wandering kind.
"Hey Ennis, do you know someone named 'Jack'?"
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by patsnnott (Wed Apr 26 2006 09:32:48 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
I think Randall meant nothing more than the Mexican prostitutes, but he was closer and easier to reach. Ennis told Jack not to tell him those other things he didn't want to know, such as the affair with the ranch foreman's wife was actually an affair with the ranch foreman. Then at Jack's parents' house, Ennis hears that Jack is with some other fellow. Gonna leave his wife and the two of them move up here. That's more than a fling, but, it never did come to pass, and maybe it was just wishful thinking on Jack's part. His dreamer personality may have been rebounding from the let down he just had with Ennis, and he was dreaming outloud about bringing Randall to Lightening Flats. He was feeling desperate because he just came to terms with the fact that he and Ennis were never going to fulfill his dream, so he had to keep it alive, but with Randall.
"You have NO IDEA how BAD it gets! I'm not like you Ennis!"
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by Turquine (Tue Apr 25 2006 18:41:06 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
I think in the bench scee it seems to me that Jack is definitely attracted though he doesn't want to betray Ennis.
In the campfire, "I'm having sex with a ranch foreman....'s wife" scene, he's definitely admitting he's having an affair with Randall, but he has to change the sex so Ennis won't be jealous.
And after the big blow up of their last meeting, look at the hard expression on Jack's face as he watches Ennis drive away. He's given up and decided to pursue a relationship with Randall. But he can't woo Randall away from his closeted life either, and then he dies before he and Ennis have their next meeting. A lot of people would probably like it not to be so, but I'd bet real money that Jack 1) had sex with Randall and 2) gave up on Ennis. The evidence is pretty strong.
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by garlicbreath (Wed Apr 26 2006 09:19:47 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
I've found another soulmate!
Sorry for not reading through all of the posts - I haven't got much time! - but I really absolutely agree with you here. I really hate, hate HATE the idea of Randall-Jack, and I strongly, in my heart, believe that Jack never gave up on Ennis.
People say "what about Jack's dad?" and I say "Jack said it out of anger! Jack talks a lot of crap, everyone knows that, it's just one of his 'plans'!"
People say "jack was lying about having an affair with the ranch foreman's wife to Ennis!" and I say "No! After all, he did ask LaShawn to dance, and he clearly does kind of like her."
People say "Randall fancies Jack! he asked him to the cabin!" and I say "We never see Jack ACCEPTING! You can't prove anything!"
And you're right, I personally agree, about Jack remembering Ennis when Randall invites him to the cabin. I think Randall hit a bit too close to Ennis' and Jack's relationship when he talks about fishing. But personally, I just want to believe Jack never ever gave up on Ennis.
I know lots of people will disagree with me, but there's so much ambiguity in the film which allows for so many different interpretations. And this one makes me feel happy, even if I am over-romanticising the relationship.
You must allow me to tell you how ardently I admire and love you
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by edd_joey (Wed Apr 26 2006 17:51:50 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
I believe Randall represents Jack's despair because he can't be with Ennis.
BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN: UNCROWNED CHAMPION!!!
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by belfastgirl (Wed Apr 26 2006 17:53:29 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
Exactly edd joey.
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by prowlamongus (Wed Apr 26 2006 18:03:06 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
The only thing certain is that Randall was hitting on Jack while they were on the bench. Believe me, if that wasn't a hit, nothing was...it's called cruising.
~True friends stab you in the front~
Oscar Wilde
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by PeterDecker (Sun Apr 30 2006 01:48:28 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
Randall was hitting on Jack, he and Jack exchanged glances a couple of times and the gaydar went off big time.
Jack was having an affair with Randall and I believe he would have moved to his parents ranch with him.
There is no denying he would still be in love with Ennis. But Ennis wouldn't give him a life and Jack wanted a companion to share his life with so badly. He was lonely and Ennis was selfish in the way he treated him. He kept Jack dangling on a string for years.
Randall is definitely hot but Jack didn't love him the way he loved Ennis. Randall must have been in the picture for a long time and Jack obviously had feelings for him but Jack still went to see Ennis at every opportunity.
Jack wanted to live with Ennis but Ennis just wouldn't come around. When he finally did it was too late.
The homophobia in their society and Ennis's fear of violent attack ruined so many lives. So many people were affected. And it was all secretive and unspoken.
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by richardg49 (Sun Apr 30 2006 04:44:04 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
If this discussion is going to get anywhere, it might be useful to look at it from the perspective of the scriptwriters and the director. We should start by asking the question 'Why are the scenes with Randall (and laShawn) there at all?'
If you read the original Proulx story, neither Randall or laShawn are mentioned by name. All that we have are these two fairly brief references:
'Jack said he’d had a thing going with the wife of a rancher down the road in Childress and for the last few months he’d slank around expecting to get shot by Lureen or the husband.'
"Then this spring he’s got another one’s goin a come up here with him and build a place and help run the ranch, some ranch neighbor a his from down in Texas. He’s goin a split up with his wife and come back here." - Mr Twist
It appears that Ossama and McMurtry took these two references as a starting-point from which to develop the characters of Randall (the rancher?) and laShawn (his wife). What would have been their purpose? Why develop these characters and give them two scenes where they interact with Jack? What did the scriptwriters intend that we should learn about Jack after seeing these scenes, because Jack is, after all, the focal character in both of them, the one who commands our attention and interest? Surely we are supposed to find out something more about the nature of Jack's attachment to Ennis, since Ennis is clearly the protagonist in the greater story.
So what happens? From the first scene, we see Jack almost deliberately parodying Lureen's comment that 'men never dance with their wives'. He asks laShawn to dance, leaving Randall and Lureen alone together at the table. I think the main point here is to show us Jack's readiness to challenge Lureen and even to show his contempt for her. This brief episode is the scriptwriter's way of showing us that Jack's marriage has become sterile and empty.
The next scene is Randall and Jack outside the dance hall waiting for their wives to come out from the powder room. The initial discussion of 'why do women powder their noses?' seems intended to show that the men are united in their belief that women do inexplicable things. It is following this moment of shared cameraderie that Randall makes his come-on for Jack by mentioning the cabin by the lake and proposing that the two of them should go there sometime on a fishing trip. (Randall is, of course, 'fishing' for Jack as he makes this suggestion) Since we have already heard the idea of 'fishing trips' being used by Ennis as his lame cover story to Alma to explain his times away with Jack, we have obviously got to be suspicious about the use of the same motif here when Randall is talking to Jack, and we must be sensitised to the fact that it has a hidden, secondary, meaning. Remember, Proulx didn't think of or write this, it is entirely an idea of the film's scriptwriters. Also, Ang Lee must have judged it appropriate since he chose to include it in the film. So what is its purpose?
As many have already noticed, Jack gives no sign of any kind that he might accept Randall's proposal, so we can't be sure that he likes the idea or not. It is clear though that he equally makes no sign that he's offended by the veiled suggestion (I think we can assume he's well aware of what Randall is really meaning; after all, didn't he try a vaguely similar pick-up line with the rodeo clown, Jimbo?). When Jack talks to Ennis in the last scene by the lake, he refers only to the 'rancher's wife' in Childress, which I assume we are intended to understand to be laShawn. He says nothing about Randall. It's only when old Mr Twist refers to a 'ranch neighbour' who is going to split with his wife and come back to Lightning Flat with Jack, that we must realise that this is supposed to refer to Randall. After all, the film has shown us no other man-and-wife couple in Childress that Jack is acquainted with, and who might be a possible alternate partner for Jack if he has indeed 'quit' Ennis.
There can be only one possible conclusion. Jack, aware that there is the possibility of a relationship developing with Randall, decides to 'quit' Ennis and goes to his parents to tell then that he's coming back to their ranch with a 'ranch neighbour'(Randall) from Childress. Unfortunately, he never makes it because he dies (ambiguously) before he can do it.
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by catglith (Sun Apr 30 2006 05:08:04 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
UPDATED Sun Apr 30 2006 12:20:01
You're right richardg49, the scenes with Randall and LaShawn do have a purpose and are there for a reason - like you said they reveal how Jack and Lureen's marriage is disintergrating, and they also show the possibility that Jack could have been involved in some sort of relationship with Randall. But I think another important question to ask is why WEREN'T there more scenes with Randall? Because the scriptwriters and filmmakers want us to come to our own conclusion!
"There can be only one possible conclusion. Jack, aware that there is the possibility of a relationship developing with Randall, decides to 'quit' Ennis and goes to his parents to tell then that he's coming back to their ranch with a 'ranch neighbour'(Randall) from Childress. Unfortunately, he never makes it because he dies (ambiguously) before he can do it."
There is no proof! Do we know if Randall and Jack shared anything deep? Would Randall want to move to Lightning Flat and start a life with Jack? Was Jack just mentioning another guy cos he was hurt and let down by Ennis again and venting after their fight - was he serious (Jack has a tendancy to 'think out loud')? Would Jack WANT a life with Randall? Would he be able to follow through with his plans when he got home - could he actually give up Ennis? Had Jack discussed these plans with Randall? Was Jack saying that comment about having an affair with his neighbour's wife as an attempt to one-up Ennis after he brings up Cassie? Was he mentioning bringing up someone else to placate his father? Did he voluntarily talk about bringing up some other guy, or was his father provoking him 'so when's this Del Mar guy gonna come up'? and so he mentions someone else to shut him up (hell, i would have)? Did Jack's mother know her son wasn't serious when he mentioned some other guy (look how he immediately puts her hand on Ennis' shoulder and firmly pushes him to go to Jack's room, as if she knew Ennis was the one Jack wanted and she knew Jack wasn't serious when he's mentioned someone else)? How do we know that Jack and his mother didn't have a talk in private after he mentioned the other guy and he told her he knew it wasn't going to happen? Was Jack's father making up the comment about the other guy to upset Ennis and belittle his son?....
So, er, yeah. We can't be sure. This issue is just as ambiguous as Jack's death.
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by PeterDecker (Sun Apr 30 2006 12:08:36 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
Neither Jack's death nor his relationship with Randall are that ambiguous. Jack was most likely beaten to death with a tire iron and he most likely was preparing to leave his wife and move to his parents' place with Randall.
These issues are part of the complexity the film forces us to deal with. Thankfully, both Proulx and Lee soften the truth by leaving us some room to believe otherwise.
But from my perspective Jack was murdered by homophobes just as he was preparing to move on from Ennis. And just as sadly, Ennis was starting to come around and I think he was on the verge of accepting a life with Jack. That's why he "dumped" Cassie. He was done lying and hiding.
Proulx, Lee and the entire cast and crew have blessed us with a masterpiece of a story and film.
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by LauraGigs (Sun Apr 30 2006 12:46:24 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
Catglith's last paragraph with the questions sums it up perfectly, IMO.
Plus, few have looked at the whole situation from Randall's end. Randall seems a tiny bit worldlier than Jack or Ennis, and to have well-tuned gaydar. He proposes "fishing trips" to Jack within hours of meeting him. Seems to me Randall is experienced at carrying on encounters with men on the QT, and wants to establish one fairly immediately in his new town.
In other words, Randall knows exactly what he wants: "fishing trips" on the sly while he — and his "fishing buddy" — remain married and keep up the straight front.
I can't see Randall doing a 180 from this (evidently longstanding) game plan, falling in love, divorcing and blatantly moving in with another man.
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by catglith (Sun Apr 30 2006 13:12:16 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
lauragigs i agree with you completely! I'm so glad that someone else is looking at it from Randall's P-O-V too. I posted this on a thread a while back (i keep on re-posting my posts it seems
) but it sums up my doubts about Randall's serious interest in Jack:
"IMO, IF there was a 'relationship' with Randall it was not serious - there were no deep feelings, not least because i think Jack was still 'emotionally' loyal to Ennis, if not 'physically'. I always believed from the very first time i saw the film that if it existed it was based on a mutual agreement/arrangement that it was convenient sex. They were gay and both stuck in marriages so couldn't be satisifed sexually, so they used each other for that. They may have enjoyed each others company, but there was no strong emotional attachment. Also, I don't know about anyone else, but i felt maybe Randall had come on to other guys before with the 'we should get away, y'know' line. After all, Randall and LaShawn had just moved to the area, so it's possible that Randall had had a similar 'agreement' or arrangement with another man where he used to live, and so when he met Jack and presumably guessed he was gay too, initiated a 'relationship' similar to one he previously had so he could get his sexual needs met now he'd moved"
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by PeterDecker (Sun Apr 30 2006 13:31:51 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
Sorry Catglith, I wish I could agree with you but I don't see it that way.
* Randall clearly hits on Jack at the dance.
* Jack tells Ennis he's having an affair with a ranch neighbour's wife -- which is a lie. He's having the affair with the ranch neighbour, not the wife.
* Jack's father tells Ennis that Jack was going to leave his wife and come there to live with another fellow, some ranch neighbour of his.
All the pieces fall into place.
Jack and Randall were having an affair. Jack obviously had feelings for Randall, he's the only guy other than Ennis that he wanted to bring to his parents' house and live with. Jack clearly snapped at their last meeting at the lake. He just couldn't take Ennis's head games anymore.
I'm not trying to be cruel, but we have to deal with all this. Obviously Ennis was the love of Jack's life and I think Ennis was coming around, but Jack was preparing to move on just as he was killed.
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by RouxB (Sun Apr 30 2006 13:53:23 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
PeterDecker-
I agree, and disagree, with what you are saying-the disagreement being primarily with your certainty. Elements of this story are meant to be ambiguous and Annie Proulx and Ang Lee are certainly not trying to sugarcoat things for the reader/viewer (that's kind of insulting to them and invalidates the deliberate sparseness of the story-telling). I have never waivered in my view of how Jack died-my view is that we don't know and are not meant to "know"-nor is Ennie meant to know. I have waivered on the Randall relationship issue. I have come around to believing that he and Jack were having a sexual relationship but at the time of the lake scene, Jack was not leaving Ennis. Up in Lightning Flat, dreamer Jack was doing just that-dreaming-but the reality was, he did not go through with it. John Twist says "Then this spring he's got another fella's goin' a come up here with him and build a place and help run the ranch...But like most a Jack's ideas it never come to pass." Jack was supposed to have brought Randall up that spring but he didn't and not because he was killed but because it didn't work out that way.
"We're 'sposed a guard the sheep, not eat em."
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by PeterDecker (Sun Apr 30 2006 14:48:41 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
I agree, and disagree, with what you are saying-the disagreement being primarily with your certainty.
The certainty exists in my own mind but I really do feel certain about what I believe.
Elements of this story are meant to be ambiguous and Annie Proulx and Ang Lee are certainly not trying to sugarcoat things for the reader/viewer (that's kind of insulting to them and invalidates the deliberate sparseness of the story-telling).
The ambiguity is there but it exists due to a lack of concrete evidence. The deliberate ommission of information on Proulx's part.
We have a number of hints that Randall and Jack are having an affair. We also have the strong suggestion that Jack was murdered by homohopbes who bashed his face in with a tire iron.
Yes, there is some open space between what we know and what we try to believe. I think that was a kindness to help us deal with things but I've put the pieces together in a way that makes sense to me. Others will put it together differently.
I have come around to believing that he and Jack were having a sexual relationship but at the time of the lake scene, Jack was not leaving Ennis.
I agree. It's after their last fight that Jack decides to move on with his life. He leaves Ennis and drives on to his parents. That's when he tells them he intends to come and live there with another guy.
Up in Lightning Flat, dreamer Jack was doing just that-dreaming-but the reality was, he did not go through with it. John Twist says "Then this spring he's got another fella's goin' a come up here with him and build a place and help run the ranch...But like most a Jack's ideas it never come to pass." Jack was supposed to have brought Randall up that spring but he didn't and not because he was killed but because it didn't work out that way.
The fact that Jack told his parents about his intention to bring another guy there means this was probably imminent. Just because it didn't happen that Spring doesn't mean it wouldn't have happened a few months later. I'm sure both Jack and Randall would have to dissolve their marriages first and clear up some loose ends. But it looks like this was in the works and Ennis's intransigence at the lake clinched it for Jack. And I do think that had Jack not been killed this would have come to pass.
It's only my interpretation of the clues and hints, but this is the only way that makes sense to me. I don't like it, because I can't bear to think of Jack and Ennis not being together. But this is how it falls into place for me. And no matter what Jack did, I know that Ennis would still be the great love of his life.
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by catglith (Sun Apr 30 2006 15:16:47 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
"no matter what Jack did, I know that Ennis would still be the great love of his life."
So we agree on something, lol
.
I honestly respect your opinion on this, because it is all down to personal interpretation.
I know that some people may see this as 'sugar coating' or even denial cos it IS unbearable to think of Jack moving on, but i really believe that there is just too much ambiguity to conclude that Jack was really going to move someone else up to Lightning Flat and 'quit' Ennis. So we have to decipher from what we know about Jack and what we saw on screen our own conclusions, and mine just happens to be that Jack had not decided to 'quit' Ennis, nor was he serious about bringing another guy up there.
I have considered and thought deeply on this issue for a long time, trying to look at it from all angles, and i've changed my mind sooo many times, but i've always come back to the same conclusion in the end, so i'm sticking with it!
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by PeterDecker (Sun Apr 30 2006 15:32:46 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
You're perfectly entitled to your opinion Catglith. It's as valid as anyone else's. I may be certain of my own views but others are equally certain that I am wrong.
What most makes me think that Jack moved on is that sad expression on his face as he watches Ennis drive away for the last time. It comes right after his memory of the dozy embrace -- which always gets me.
The expression on his face is that of a broken, bitter man. His lips are pursed, his jaw is clenched. He's had it.
I'm so proud of Heath and Jake for that lake scene. That was a magnificent piece of acting.
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by catglith (Sun Apr 30 2006 15:44:42 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
"The expression on his face is that of a broken, bitter man. His lips are pursed, his jaw is clenched. He's had it."
That's really interesting, because all i ever see is intense and deep longing, sadness and pain. IMO, he looks like he's about to cry. I have never seen anger, resignation or determination or anything that would suggest he's going to move on.
It's great that in BBM even a LOOK is read so differently!
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by vaporize (Sun Apr 30 2006 15:51:27 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
I agree with you catglith. That face that Jack showed was of anger and resentment but more so of frustration. In a way I guess he feels that he has wasted his whole life trying to be with Ennis and he desperately wants to give up but he can't. After all, Jack WISHES he knew how to quit Ennis.
"Overrated" is so overrated.
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by mizkiwi (Mon May 1 2006 17:30:58 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
On this subject, I go with what is shown throughout the movie and with what the soundtrack tells us, that their love will never grow old. Ennis is Jack's soul mate and the love of his life...As Heath says on the DVD, this movie is about how love transcends all..What really matters isn't if Jack really does decide to have a relationship of convenient sex with a neighbor who means nothing to him (or at least nothing compared to Ennis) What really matters is that he loved Ennis profoundly and had an unbelievable connection with him that could never be broken...I WISH I knew how to quit you..wish is the key word here...My final take on the whole thing is, maybe they could have stopped seeing each other physically (although highly improbable) but their souls were tied together very strongly indeed...and not a single thing in the world could have cut those strings..
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall (Spoiler)
by megapecs2000 (Mon May 1 2006 19:46:21 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
I really think the situation between Randall and Jack (told by Jack's Dad to Ennis near the end of the film after Jack's death) wasn't nearly as "major"
as the Ennis/Jack relationship was. I think all we fans can do is speculate
and that Annie Proulx (and the screenwriters!) have spun the story this way
so that we, the fans, can fill in the blanks any way that suits us as
individuals. Book and film mention this in the Ennis/Elder Twists scene,
although Randall isn't mentioned by name. Certainly this would be a very
dangerous situation to get into.
Having lived in the South (Childress, TX IS in the South!) all of my life, I
know all too well that these relationships do not go undetected by the locals.
This certainly could have prompted Jack's and Randall's early death. Remember...We have NO idea what happened, if anything, to Randall! Ennis and
Lureen discussed Jack's death over the telephone. This prompted Ennis' visit
to the Elder Twist's in Lightening Flat, WY.
Would Jack and Ennis have enjoyed living on the Twist Ranch? Judging by the
reactions of John Twist in the book/movie, I truly doubt it would have been
a Fire Island Honeymoon. Loaned my copy of Brokeback to my elderly parents
(79 and 82) and Sister. They all had wonderful, sympathetic reactions to
this excellent film. Dad is a retired clergyman. His reaction to the film
was that it was, in some ways, a Sunday School Lesson with the major point
being that gay men certainly need to avoid getting married to women. Sister
loved the WY scenery (WHICH WAS CALGARY, CANADA!!!)in addition to the acting,
plot, etc. All agreed that each viewing of the film will prompt new thoughts
and ideas about what really happened.
Jack obviously had a higher level of libido than Ennis did. We can't ponder
Randall without pondering the Mexican.
FASCINATION FILM! We could talk about it FOREVER!
!
Re: Thoughts about Jack and Randall
by ericandtammy (Tue May 2 2006 00:47:00 )
Ignore this User | Report Abuse
I a positive these two had an affair, be it for a short amount of time or longer. Jack wasn't the faithful type. He admitted to Mexico. Why wouldn't he have an affair with Randall? It was convenient, it was a sexual release that he needed. Of course, he wasn't sleeping with LaShawn. He just substituted "w
