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The Pentecost scene, again..

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Jeff Wrangler:
Sorry, but I'm not really following what difference the "but" conjunction and the ironic tone make. It seems pretty clear to me that "Nothing he'd done before" means Ennis had never before done what he was about to do to Jack.

As to whether Ennis in the story was a complete virgin--had never been with a woman--I'm not sure we really have any evidence to go on to draw a conclusion. Ennis in the story was 19-going-on-20 at that time. If he was anything like me, by that age he may have been "wringing it out" for years and new perfectly well what the "clear slick" was. He'd also been working on ranches since he was about 14, so he must have heard older hands talking and joking.

I think Movie Ennis's remark to Jack about never having had the opportunity for sinning is a pretty clear indication that he's a virgin--a remarkable admission by a 19- or 20-year-old and, I think, an indication of how close he had grown to Jack. This could well be a difference between the two Ennises, Story and Movie, that is, maybe Story Ennis wasn't a virgin and Movie Ennis was.

RouxB:
I am also of the virgin interpretation and certainly as it pertains to men. Remember this is 1963 and, unlike today, every teenager in America was not having sex. There is nothing in the story and nothing in the build-up to the first tent scene to suggest that Ennis had any sexual experience much less with a man. To suggest that he did, IMO, kind of trivalizes his relationship with Jack. Jack was EVERYTHING to Ennis-friend, confidant, lover-in the way that only first experiences are. And in the context of the time, I don't think it would be at all unusual for Alma to be a virgin as well.

As for the scene, I think it was to show their growing bond-Ennis "playing drums" to Jack's singing and the sweetness and honesty of their gazes when Ennis says "I ain't yet had the opportunity" and Jack goes " hmmmm". And, contrary to some posts, I don't see this as a pick-up line by any stretch of the imagination. Also, a foreboding of Jack's death.
 O0

cmr107:
Yes, Jeff and Ruby. Exactly.

serious crayons:

--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on May 03, 2006, 09:35:46 pm --- maybe Story Ennis wasn't a virgin and Movie Ennis was.

--- End quote ---

Funny, Jeff! They really are starting to seem like two completely separate characters.

Here are my votes: Was he a virgin with women? Maybe. With men? Yes. Is virginity what he was referring to? Probably. Was it deliberate flirting? No. Unconscious flirting? Possibly. Indication of close friendship? You bet.

TJ:
I just looked at the short story again a few hours ago and while the movie seems to show that "Ennis got that opportunity to sin" that night with Jack after he sang "Water-Walking Jesus," what is in the next book paragraph implies that it was not on the same night.

The discussion of what "Pentecost" meant is not in Annie Proulx's story.

This paragraph is from page 13 of the 2005 paperback book edition of the story.


--- Quote ---The summer went on and they moved the herd to new pasture, shifted the camp; the distance between the sheep and the new camp was greater and the night ride longer.
Ennis rode easy, sleeping with his eyes open, but the hours he was away from the sheep stretched out and out. Jack pulled a squalling burr out of the harmonica, flattened a little from a fall off the skittish bay mare, and Ennis had a good raspy voice; a few nights they mangled their way through some songs. Ennis knew the salty words to "Strawberry Roan." Jack tried a Carl Perkins song, bawling "what I say-ay-ay," but he favored a sad hymn, "Water-Walking Jesus," learned from his mother who believed in the Pentecost, that he sang at dirge slowness, setting off distant coyote yips.
   "Too late to go out to them damn sheep," said Ennis, dizzy drunk on all fours one cold hour when the moon had notched past two. The meadow stones glowed white-green and a flinty wind worked over the meadow, scraped the fire low, then ruffled it into yellow silk sashes. "Got you a extra blanket I'll roll up out here and grab forty winks, ride out at first light."
--- End quote ---


Notice in the quoted paragraphs, everything does not happen all at the same time. I interpret that "one cold hour when the moon had notched past two" as a different night than the times where they were doing the singing of some songs. Notice that they did not sing songs only one time or that Jack was the only one singing. 

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