Our BetterMost Community > Chez Tremblay
Heath Heath Heath
Ellemeno:
--- Quote from: optom3 on June 10, 2008, 10:10:28 pm ---It starts to become more obvious after sept.07.It is not just that he is sartorially challenged,I love that quirkiness, there is more to it.I know I am not imagining it.I also know that he probably, like my brother could not give a stuff what he wears,but he starts to look unkempt,as well, his hair is not just his loveable bed head, it is dirty and his complexion gets really sallow.
He also seems to loose a lot of weight, but not in a get fit and toned sort of way. Oh well see what you think. If we had hindsight we would all be millionaires with perfect kids and marriages.
I was fine until I started to feel that all was not right with him,then I just became upset all over again.
--- End quote ---
Fiona, I agree. I was seeing it then, and worrying. There was adorable quirkiness, but there was also haggard lack of self-care. From around the time of that fashion show where Heath was sitting next to Michael Stipe, he started worrying me.
optom3:
--- Quote from: Elle on June 11, 2008, 12:03:09 pm ---
Fiona, I agree. I was seeing it then, and worrying. There was adorable quirkiness, but there was also haggard lack of self-care. From around the time of that fashion show where Heath was sitting next to Michael Stipe, he started worrying me.
--- End quote ---
I completely agree,I am glad it was not just me. I hate hollywood for taking their pound of flesh and being so blind or deliberately not seeing a tragedy unfolding in front of them.
I don't buy the ,well you can't force someone to get help. You can, it may be bloody difficult and they can hate you for doing it.My son and I are classic examples of that.But if you care enough, you ignore the hate and all the rest,knowing that when they are well again,it will all have been worthwhile.
So I just, as I say ,don't buy all that bullshit.
I also don't buy the, well his family and friends were all so far away. My brother was in Japan, miles away from his family,I knew there was something horribly wrong with my brother that Xmas.So I rang the one good friend , he had in Japan,who did not take no for an answer.He rode roughshod over my brother and just did not let up.The result, a much happier more stable brother, who could never show enough gratitude.
So it just leads me to the conclusion that Heath had not one real true friend in America.Many acquaintances and hangers on, but not a simple, honest friend,If he did, then that friend should hang their head in shame.
I know I sound hard, but I have been in the position with so many.I have done the helping and put up with the hate.I have also been helped and done my share of hurling hatred and abuse at my helper.
I am so angry that no one cared enough to see what was happening and act on it, no matter how difficult.It is so clear that Heath was a gentle soul, who was not equipped to deal with the trappings of fame.Some people actively search it out, not him.
Just the fact that he had to go on yet another press junket within days of his break up with Michelle is heartless.It does not matter whose fault the break up was.It would have been painful either way. But oh no, the movie machine rolls on, no time to have a moment of grief or respite, to mourn the breakdown.
It was from that press junket, that things seemed to slide inexorably towards their tragic conclusion.
Will anyone take blame or feel even an iota of guilt, no.
I know people will say well Heath had some responsibility himself.The answer is, maybe in the early days,but as the problem deepens,it is the nature of the beast that the sufferer is the last to be aware of the problem.
I personally think he gave a massive hint when he talked about his lack of sleep, and not being able to quiet his mind. For such a private person that was one hell of a personal revelation. Unfortunately it seemed to fall on deaf ears.
The hollywood meat market just continues.
Me bitter and twisted, no never !!!!
Penthesilea:
--- Quote from: optom3 on June 11, 2008, 02:36:44 pm ---I completely agree,I am glad it was not just me. I hate hollywood for taking their pound of flesh and being so blind or deliberately not seeing a tragedy unfolding in front of them.
I don't buy the ,well you can't force someone to get help. You can, it may be bloody difficult and they can hate you for doing it.My son and I are classic examples of that.But if you care enough, you ignore the hate and all the rest,knowing that when they are well again,it will all have been worthwhile.
So I just, as I say ,don't buy all that bullshit.
I also don't buy the, well his family and friends were all so far away. My brother was in Japan, miles away from his family,I knew there was something horribly wrong with my brother that Xmas.So I rang the one good friend , he had in Japan,who did not take no for an answer.He rode roughshod over my brother and just did not let up.The result, a much happier more stable brother, who could never show enough gratitude.
So it just leads me to the conclusion that Heath had not one real true friend in America.Many acquaintances and hangers on, but not a simple, honest friend,If he did, then that friend should hang their head in shame.
I know I sound hard, but I have been in the position with so many.I have done the helping and put up with the hate.I have also been helped and done my share of hurling hatred and abuse at my helper.
I am so angry that no one cared enough to see what was happening and act on it, no matter how difficult.It is so clear that Heath was a gentle soul, who was not equipped to deal with the trappings of fame.Some people actively search it out, not him.
Just the fact that he had to go on yet another press junket within days of his break up with Michelle is heartless.It does not matter whose fault the break up was.It would have been painful either way. But oh no, the movie machine rolls on, no time to have a moment of grief or respite, to mourn the breakdown.
It was from that press junket, that things seemed to slide inexorably towards their tragic conclusion.
Will anyone take blame or feel even an iota of guilt, no.
I know people will say well Heath had some responsibility himself.The answer is, maybe in the early days,but as the problem deepens,it is the nature of the beast that the sufferer is the last to be aware of the problem.
I personally think he gave a massive hint when he talked about his lack of sleep, and not being able to quiet his mind. For such a private person that was one hell of a personal revelation. Unfortunately it seemed to fall on deaf ears.
The hollywood meat market just continues.
Me bitter and twisted, no never !!!!
--- End quote ---
Sorry Fiona, but here I have to disagree. Respectfully, but pretty much. We've been through this same kind of discussion before, so I'll keep it short.
You, and I, and all of us here have no idea what really went on in Heath's peronal life. I think you're way overinterpreting and projecting here. Heath is not your brother. You may see similarities, but that doesn't mean it's the same. You jump to conclusions from things you interpret from your personal experience.
Please get me right: I don't claim to know better, I just claim that you don't know either.
--- Quote ---I don't buy the ,well you can't force someone to get help. You can, it may be bloody difficult and they can hate you for doing it.My son and I are classic examples of that.But if you care enough, you ignore the hate and all the rest,knowing that when they are well again,it will all have been worthwhile.
So I just, as I say ,don't buy all that bullshit.
--- End quote ---
Away from Heath: that's just not true. You're again projecting from your own experience, you say so yourself. Only a few weeks ago you were pretty desperate about the situation with your son. I'm really and honestly happy that things are finally better for you now and wish you that it may last and that you're really out of the woods. I think you know that already.
But: imagine another family in a similar situation. What if the kid does something really horrible and irreversible before he finally gets the right medication?
Would it be the fault of the family? Would they have failed in your eyes? Even neglected their duties? Bear in mind that they may have tried just as hard as you did, they may just have been not as lucky.
--- Quote ---So it just leads me to the conclusion that Heath had not one real true friend in America.Many acquaintances and hangers on, but not a simple, honest friend,If he did, then that friend should hang their head in shame.
--- End quote ---
Yes, you are hard. You're judging people, who you don't even know, in a harsh way. I think that's wrong.
optom3:
--- Quote from: Penthesilea on June 11, 2008, 04:20:47 pm ---
Sorry Fiona, but here I have to disagree. Respectfully, but pretty much.
You, and I, and all of us here have no idea what really went on in Heath's peronal life. I think you're way overinterpreting and projecting here. Heath is not your brother. You may see similarities, but that doesn't mean it's the same. You jump to conclusions from things you interpret from your personal experience.
Please get me right: I don't claim to know better, I just claim that you don't know either.
Away from Heath: that's just not true. You're again projecting from your own experience, you say so yourself. Only a few weeks ago you were pretty desperate about the situation with your son. I'm really and honestly happy that things are finally better for you now and wish you that it may last and that you're really out of the woods. I think you know that already.
But: imagine another family in a similar situation. What if the kid does something really horrible and irreversible before he finally gets the right medication?
Would it be the fault of the family? Would they have failed in your eyes? Even neglected their duties? Bear in mind that they may have tried just as hard as you did, they may just have been not as lucky.
Yes, you are hard. You're judging people, who you don't even know, in a harsh way. I think that's wrong.
--- End quote ---
You did disagree very tactfully, which made me rethink. I guess I am doing exactly what you say.I am projecting my own experience onto Heath,which is not only wrong, but is totally unfair of me.
I need to stand back sometimes and be more objective. I Could so easily have been the one being judged if my son had managed to ignite himself.Yet as you say I had done all I thought I could.
I have a tendency, to become over emotional and too subjective.I will however back down when I genuinely feel I am wrong. On this occasion I think I probably am.
In fact I am neither right or wrong, the simple answer is I don't know and as such should be more careful, before casting aspersions right left and center.
I also know myself well enough to realise that I am casting around in anger,looking for someone to blame.I used to do that with my son,in fact probably still do to some extent.It must be my fault,I did something wrong when pregnant,I should have gone to the hospital sooner,if I had not been so busy working I wouldhave noticed the lack of movement sooner. I was told to stay off work for a few days until my B.P decreased, but I didn't.The litany of blame goes on,despite every psychiatrist saying it was nothing I did.
I know that , with regards to Heath,I am swinging between such sorrow and anger at the moment,which is ridiculous, for someone I did not know.
I think it is probably a reflection of what has gone on in my personal life recently and the fact that I so nearly lost my own son. It hurts so badly to think what a narrow escape we had and that just makes the Heath thing even worse.But it also makes the near miss with my son worse,if that makes any sense.What if I had left the house with my other son as I usually do when he is erupting.What would I have come home to.So I think it is our near miss cf with Heath that has set me off again.
Maybe it's time to increase my medication as I don't seem to be coping very well.I actually coped better when my son was so bad.Now we have some relief and I seem to have gone to pieces.Sometimes the what could have happened is nearly as big a shock as if it had happened.
I apologise unreservedly for writing anything that may have caused offense.It was very wrong of me to judge,particularly when I hate it so much when people who did not know our whole situation here judged me for bad parenting.
So I will stop rambling and just say a big sorry. I just struggle to think of him on his own. Maybe I need to trey and gain some positive perspective on it. !!!
MilAn:
I personally am convinced that he didn't take good care of himself and it seems no one was around to do that for him (and i think he needed someone to do that). Someone who uses 6 different prescription drugs (sleeping pills, anxiety pills and painkillers) couldn't have been in a good place. We'll never know if someone saw his problems and tried to help or just underestimated or ignorted it. It certainly wasn't helpful that his family and childhood friends lived in Australia.
He was a good guy, he loved his daughter and had a promising career ahead of him, this is really tragic and that's why people will continue to ponder about this whole tragic situation.
All, of course, just my opinion!
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