Author Topic: Topic of the Week 4/07: Why hadn't story Lureen ever met Jack's parents?  (Read 4147 times)

Offline Penthesilea

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Happy new week, Brokies  :)!

This week, it's the first time we have a topic suggested by a BetterMostian other than Katherine or me. A big thank you to the contributor  :-*!

Also, this week's topic is not worded as a closed question. The "rules" of the TOTW are not set in stone, so if you have a question that doesn't fit into the yes/no answer scheme, bring it on anyway. We're a flexible bunch here at BetterMost  ;).


Why hadn't story Lureen ever met Jack's parents?

The screenplay follows the short story very closely, but leaves out Annie's "I never met them. They didn't come down for the funeral."  A related question might be why these two details were left out of the screenplay.
And what about Bobby? Do you think Mrs. Twist ever had a chance to get to know her only grandchild?
Let's analyze Jack's family ties.

Offline Fran

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The "I never met them" comment by Lureen tells us that Jack's parents didn't even make it down to Texas for the wedding.  A plausible reason for this is that they couldn't leave the ranch because they don't have any help.  There's no one to fill in for them.  As to why Mrs. Twist didn't make the trip alone either for the wedding or afterwards, again this was due to economics and logistics.  Childress was just too far away.

This brings us to the queston as to why Lureen never made the trip up to Lightning Flat to meet them.  I'm going to assume that Jack and Lureen got married in a hurry; there wasn't a long engagement.  In my way of thinking, it's likely that Lureen was pregnant and there's a rush wedding.  If her first trimester was anything like the one I experienced with my first pregnancy, she's too exhausted or nauseous to think about making what would be more than a 14-hour drive to Lightning Flat.  So the meeting of Jack's parents is put off until the baby is born.  But by the time Bobby is eight months old, Jack has reunited with Ennis, and Jack uses his trips to Lightning Flat as extensions of his time with Ennis.  There's no room for Lureen and Bobby on these trips.  And once Jack had his heart set on a life with Ennis, he was already emotionally withdrawing from his life with Lureen and Bobby.  It wouldn't matter to Jack whether Lureen ever met his parents because he wasn't intending on staying with her.

The fact that Lureen says "I never met them" instead of "We never met them" gives me hope that perhaps Jack had made the trip to Lightning Flat with Bobby once he was older to introduce him to his grandparents. 

That said, I think Ossana and McMurtry were wise to leave out the "I never met them" line because it puts both Lureen and Jack in a more favorable light if she had met Jack's parents.  I can't imagine a daughter-in-law not wanting to meet her husband's parents -- at least once anyway.  If Jack was totally estranged from his parents, Lureen's never having met them would have been more likely, but that wasn't the situation.  Lureen must have had some kind of relationship with them because she did send half of Jack's ashes to them.  Why would she do that if they were virtually strangers to her? 

Offline Penthesilea

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Wow, a whole bunch of insightful thoughts on the topic. For the moment, I just wanna reply to this part:

That said, I think Ossana and McMurtry were wise to leave out the "I never met them" line because it puts both Lureen and Jack in a more favorable light if she had met Jack's parents.  I can't imagine a daughter-in-law not wanting to meet her husband's parents -- at least once anyway.  If Jack was totally estranged from his parents, Lureen's never having met them would have been more likely, but that wasn't the situation.  Lureen must have had some kind of relationship with them because she did send half of Jack's ashes to them.  Why would she do that if they were virtually strangers to her? 



Not because of his parents, but because of Jack. It was his wish, and she fulfilled it at least half.

Lureen: "He use to say he wanted his ashes scattered on Brokeback Mountain, but I wasn't sure where that was. I thought Brokeback Mountain might be around where he grew up."

This brings up the question why she didn't fulfill his wish fully, why she kept half of his ashes. My short guess would be it was for three reasons: 1) Jack still meant something to her, she didn't want his ashes totally gone. 2) She did it for Bobby 3) She did it because otherwise it would look strange to the neighbours, consumers, etc. and would raise a couple of questions she didn't want to answer --> = to keep up the facade.

I can picture Lureen sending up half of the ashes to his parents even if she had never any contact to them. Oh, another question comes to my mind: do you think she never had any contact at all? Apart from meeting them FTF, how about Christmas cards, phone calls, etc.?

Offline shortfiction

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I don't think the Twists were the sort to really keep in touch with others. They probably lacked a phone and it might have been miles to go to find a pay phone.  They might have sent a short note now and then but that's it.  Texas is a long way from where they are and they tend to stick right where they live.   "We got a family plot and he's goin' in it" is an extreme example of this rootedness.   Thank goodness Mrs. T seemed a bit gentler and easier about such things.
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Offline Brown Eyes

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This is a great topic!

I think the reasons for Lureen not meeting Jack's folks around the time of the marriage are well-explained/ reasoned-out in Fran's post above.

As their marriage progressed I think Jack might have gone out of his way to discourage Lureen from coming up to Wyoming with him.  I think any and all trips up to Wyoming had an Ennis-component involved...  A trip to Lightning Flat for Jack was probably almost always combined with a trip to see Ennis.  So, it just seems clear that he wouldn't want to complicate those opportunities by involving Lureen in even the idea of trips to Wyoming.  I think, in a wierd way, it's like Ennis telling Alma that he and Jack were fishing buddies (and omitting the fact that they had "cowboy-ed" together).  Certain things needed to be compartmentalized for both Jack and Ennis.  For Jack, I think Wyoming = Ennis (and often Lightning Flat was a side component of this). 

I also think that one reason that Lureen would resist going to Lightning Flat would be her work-aholic personality.  She may not have liked the idea of taking time off of work for a long (possibly boring) roadtrip. 

On the topic of the story vs. the film in indicating whether or not Lureen had met the Twists...  I think the film subtly implies that she *may* have met them... The way she explains to Ennis that Jack's folks will be at their ranch until the day they die implies that she knows them.  Something about the way she says this (the tone of her voice) makes it seem like she's making this judgement based on her interpretation of their personalities.  This is a completely subjective impression that I have and is in no way conclusive.  But, it is interesting that the film skirts this issue compared to the story where it explicitly explains that Lureen didn't know the Twists.

As for Bobby, I can imagine Jack wanting to spare Bobby from dealing with John Twist Sr.  It's not implausible to me that Jack would have deliberately kept Bobby away from Lightning Flat for that reason (in combo with the Ennis complexity in the association with Wyoming).  Of course this is sad for Jack's mother, but, again it seems possible for me to believe that Jack's dislike of his father might outweigh his desire for Bobby to know his grandmother. Jack may have figured that L.D. was enough of a difficult grandfather for Bobby to have to deal with.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2007, 09:52:28 am by atz75 »
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Offline huntinbuddy

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I don't believe Jack was all that close to his parents.  I mean, shit, the old man pissed all over him when he was a small child.  I know I wouldn't forget something like that.  Yet Jack is a nice enough guy that year after year, he probably goes up and checks on his parents, sees if there is anything he can do around the home place for them before returning to Texas after the "fishing trips" with Ennis.  I think he cares about them to some extent, and does what he can to help, but old man Twist is such an asshole, that I don't think Jack really wants to spend anymore time there than what is necessary.

I think Jack and his mother had some sort of special bond, I mean think about it; how many mothers would allow what I call 20 year old laundry to hang in the attic?  Jack had to tell his mother at one time that those shirts meant something very special to him, and they were to be treated as a shrine.  "Do this for me as your son, if nothing else" type of thing.

When I first went to see this film, I had not read the book, and when Ennis found those shirts, I just lost it.  Some that I went to the movie with on additional viewings (many additional viewings actually)  asked me outside, well what was with the shirts?  I could have kicked them!  One person, I told if you hadn't been talking throughout the movie and watching perhaps you would have understood!  Another said, I just don't get it.   Well that is why I and many others are here on Bettermost and Dave Cullen, because we "get it!", and this film, this story, is so true and hard hitting to our own lives that we keep coming here because we are with others who understand.

But back to the topic at hand.  I think Jacks parents knew that he had met this Lureen chic and that he told them were getting married in Texas.   Just look at the homestead when Ennis goes to visit.  These folks are dirt poor.  They don't even have the transportation, let alone the financial means to travel to Texas for a wedding.  I'm sure in Jack's heart we would have wanted them to be there if possible, but he knows it just won't happen.  He probably felt bad about it too, because that is the type of person Jack is.  He wears his heart on his sleeve.

Jack's parents probably knew he had a child with Lureen, and I am sure he probably showed them photos, etc.  Jack really did love Bobby.  Jack gave Bobby the love that he didn't get from his own dad.  This film is so deep on so many levels it is just astounding.  Thats why I take the time to post stuff like this.

That whole scene where Ennis goes to visit Jacks parents reveals much about Jack's relationship with his parents.  If you need to, watch it again.  I think Roberta Maxwell deserved an Oscar for that small performance.  She loved Jack so much, and yet the Peter McRobbie role is just so uncaring of Jack.  I don't think the old man could have give two shits less where the ashes were spread, just as long as Ennis didn't get them.  Ennis gave Jack the love and the respect that Jack never got from his old man.

Even the phone call, the only phone call in the movie as a matter of fact; where Ennis asks "his folks still up in Lightning Flat?" and Lureen replies "they'll be there till the day they die."  This tells me that Jack and Lureen had probably discussed his parents many times.  With Jack and Lureen's financial means (with LD's money) they had the ability to put Jack's parents on a plane and fly them to Texas if they wanted.  I would bet they even suggested it.  Jack's mom would have loved to have went to visit her son and grandchild in Texas, but the old man ruled the roost in that house, and he would have nothing of it.  Couldn't you see in the film how repressed Mrs. Twist was around her husband?  I thought this was very evident in that one scene where Ennis went to offer his condolences.

I'm sorry if I'm off topic here somewhat, but it's just my thoughts, albeit a guy's point of view.  Thanks for starting this thread.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2007, 03:40:36 pm by huntinbuddy »

Offline Fran

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Good points, huntinbuddy, especially about Mrs. Twist's knowing how much the shirts meant to Jack.  You're right; at some point Jack would have had to have told his mother about how special they were to him.  I don't think he'd want to take a chance that they'd be laundered or, even worse, discarded.

I don't believe Jack was all that close to his parents.  I mean, shit, the old man pissed all over him when he was a small child.  I know I wouldn't forget something like that.  Yet Jack is a nice enough guy that year after year, he probably goes up and checks on his parents, sees if there is anything he can do around the home place for them before returning to Texas after the "fishing trips" with Ennis.  I think he cares about them to some extent, and does what he can to help, but old man Twist is such an asshole, that I don't think Jack really wants to spend anymore time there than what is necessary.

As for the closeness between Jack and his father, in both the story and the movie, Jack did tell his father about his plan for him and Ennis to move up to Lightning Flat, build a log cabin, and help OMT run the ranch; in other words, Jack, Ennis, and OMT would all be working together.  So it seems that Jack would have been willing to spend lots of time with his father if only Ennis had been agreeable to the "sweet life."  Granted, John Twist is not a kind man by any means, yet Jack must have believed that his father, at the very least, would have been tolerant of Ennis and that whatever faults/attitudes his father presented would have been bearable for Ennis.  Speaking sentimentally here, why would Jack want to put Ennis, the man he loves, in an unbearable situation?  I can't see Jack as intentionally wanting to hurt Ennis.  I think he'd be protective of him.  But maybe Jack wasn't being realistic and working together on the ranch would have been unbearable for all of them.

There is a difference between story OMT and movie OMT, with the former more abusive than the latter.  It seems to me that Ang Lee and the screenwriters softened OMT by omitting any mention of what happened in the bathroom when Jack was a little boy.  (It would have been a horrible scene to film -- and watch --  but Jack could have told Ennis about it in conversation and the viewers could have learned about it that way, no flashback necessary).  I also think that the movie shows Jack as being more paternal and caring towards Bobby than the short story does.  The story has Jack saying (with regard to children), "I didn't want none a either kind.  But fuck-all has worked the way I wanted."  That's a harsh admission coming from a parent, even if that's how Jack initially felt about fatherhood.

Even the phone call, the only phone call in the movie as a matter of fact; where Ennis asks "his folks still up in Lightning Flat?" and Lureen replies "they'll be there till the day they die."  This tells me that Jack and Lureen had probably discussed his parents many times.  With Jack and Lureen's financial means (with LD's money) they had the ability to put Jack's parents on a plane and fly them to Texas if they wanted.  I would bet they even suggested it.  Jack's mom would have loved to have went to visit her son and grandchild in Texas, but the old man ruled the roost in that house, and he would have nothing of it.  Couldn't you see in the film how repressed Mrs. Twist was around her husband?  I thought this was very evident in that one scene where Ennis went to offer his condolences.

Good points here, too.  I can see Jack's father refusing to travel to Texas and forbidding Mrs. Twist to go alone, even if it was to meet a grandchild and a daughter-in-law.  How sad!

« Last Edit: August 22, 2007, 10:00:31 pm by Fran »

Offline shortfiction

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Great posts.   I also think Mr. Twist wanted things his way and wasn't about to grant Jack's final wish.  He's doing it out of spite against his own son.   So sad.   I almost pity such a bitter old man.   Mrs. T. is  a saint by comparison.
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