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Do You Support The Death Penalty?
Shasta542:
I'm not sure how I feel about giving the Death Penalty to someone who asks for it Shasta. Does this suddenly make KILLING someone okay because they asked for it? I don't think so. Killing is killing.
I was addressing this comment when I asked about euthanasia and abortion. If killing is killing---these are the SAME matter as the death penalty.
As for the death penalty, I am like dot-matrix on the issue. ( I think you are saying it's a case by case issue with you, dot-matrix)...according to the circumstances?
I believe the guy who kidnapped that little girl, sexually assaulted her, kept her in the closet for awhile, and buried her with her teddy bear--deserves to die. He had her long enough to think about it and let her go, but he killed her. The problem comes when someone thinks that he should have mercy because he had a bad childhood or something. I'm sorry for people who had a bad childhood, but it's no excuse to me. If you do something like that, you have to be accountable to whatever the justice system has declared.
And as to innocent people being sentenced to death--that's why there has to be no doubt when the death penalty is imposed. DNA, confession, etc. I have never understood how they convicted the guy who killed his pregnant wife and dumped her in the lake. I think he's guilty, but the whole case seemed to be circumstantial. I expected him to get life in prison with no possibility for parole.
Penthesilea:
--- Quote from: Shasta542 on October 02, 2007, 06:56:28 am ---I believe the guy who kidnapped that little girl, sexually assaulted her, kept her in the closet for awhile, and buried her with her teddy bear--deserves to die.
--- End quote ---
So you're not on the fence about the question pro or con death penalty. You're clearly pro death penalty. Limited to certain crimes probably, but clearly pro.
--- Quote ---The problem comes when someone thinks that he should have mercy because he had a bad childhood or something. I'm sorry for people who had a bad childhood, but it's no excuse to me. If you do something like that, you have to be accountable to whatever the justice system has declared.
--- End quote ---
A bad childhood is not an exuse, by no means, and of course everybody who does something like that must be accountable. But not with death penalty. And to be honest, I'm tired of hearing this argument again and again. Never have I read or heard anybody say that a delinquent should get away with his crime because he had a traumatic childhood. To not impose death penalty does not mean to let a delinquent off the hook. Simple as that.
--- Quote ---And as to innocent people being sentenced to death--that's why there has to be no doubt when the death penalty is imposed. DNA, confession, etc.
--- End quote ---
Tell you what: Every judge, every jury who has ever imposed a death sentence has been sure with no doubt. Some decades ago fingerprints were thought to be a proof that leaves no doubt. Today some people think so of DNA traces. But that's not true. Even DNA analysis is only positive to an percantage of 98% - 99%. This would mean of 100 delinquents killed by death penalty only on the proof of DNA analysis, one or two would be innocent! Of course this number is theoretical, because normally there is other evidence as well in a trial. Therefore the actual number would be smaller, but existing nonetheless.
Confessions: they can be wrong, too. Even if they're not blackmailed with torture.
To make it short: there is no such thing as 100% guarantee that no person would be killed innocently as long as death penalty exists. Everybody who is pro death penalty accepts that innocent people are killed period.
Shasta542:
--- Quote ---Everybody who is pro death penalty accepts that innocent people are killed period.
--- End quote ---
Everybody--not just death penalty proponents--needs to accept that innocent people are killed every day because it's a fact of life.
The civilian people in the war zone are innocent.
Viable fetuses are innocent.
The victims of drive-bys are innocent.
Abused children who are beaten to death are innocent.
Innocents are killed every day, everywhere.
Penthesilea:
--- Quote from: Shasta542 on October 02, 2007, 08:12:54 am ---Everybody--not just death penalty proponents--needs to accept that innocent people are killed every day because it's a fact of life.
The civilian people in the war zone are innocent.
Viable fetuses are innocent.
The victims of drive-bys are innocent.
Abused children who are beaten to death are innocent.
Innocents are killed every day, everywhere.
--- End quote ---
Facts of life, true.
But the difference to death penalty is that the state knowingly kills innocent people in the name of justice! How perverse is that?
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Shasta542 on October 02, 2007, 06:56:28 am --- I'm sorry for people who had a bad childhood, but it's no excuse to me. If you do something like that, you have to be accountable to whatever the justice system has declared.
--- End quote ---
Opposition to the death penalty has absolutely nothing to do with feeling lenient toward the criminal because of his circumstances. It has to do with the death penalty being wrong.
--- Quote ---And as to innocent people being sentenced to death--that's why there has to be no doubt when the death penalty is imposed.
--- End quote ---
Like Chrissi, I don't believe there is any way to be 100 percent certain in 100 percent of cases.
--- Quote ---The civilian people in the war zone are innocent.
--- End quote ---
And that's why we shouldn't go to war, either -- except if there is strong reason to believe more lives can be saved by doing so. (Clearly that has not been the case in Iraq.)
--- Quote ---The victims of drive-bys are innocent.
Abused children who are beaten to death are innocent.
--- End quote ---
Just because murderers kill people doesn't make it OK for the government to do so. In fact, my belief is that the government's killing people creates a culture in which more citizens kill people.
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