Author Topic: TOTW 19/07: Why couldn't Jack learn to just be happy with things as they were af  (Read 30519 times)

Offline Penthesilea

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Happy Monday BetterMost folks  :)


this week's topic was suggested by our mountain-climbing, travel-reporting, metal-searching and BBQ-cooking Rocky Mountain resident, FRont-Ranger (Lee). Thank you Lee for the suggestion  :-*!


Why couldn't Jack learn to just be happy with things as they were after 20 years with Ennis?


They knew each other for such a long time. Jack knew about Ennis's fears and he knew they were not baseless. He also knew it was dangerous to pursue romance in Childress. Why did he do it?





moremojo

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Jack wanted regular intimacy with the man he loved from the moment he fell in love. The irregular get-togethers out in the middle of nowhere were just crumbs from the feast he felt he was missing out on. I do believe Jack was basically homosexual, but nonetheless, as someone who was in love, I felt he used the Mexico trips and Randall as Ennis substitutes. Randall was probably less of a romance than just another variant of the fishing trips--settling for second best when what Jack really wanted was always being deferred (and probably always would be).

Offline delalluvia

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Why couldn't Jack learn to just be happy with things as they were after 20 years with Ennis?

Because Jack had better self-esteem than Ennis.  Jack was never happy with the relationship the way it was and he was never going to be happy with it like that.  But he was in love.  People in love put up with shit relationships for long periods of time.  Doesn't mean he liked the way things were or thought he didn't deserve more.  Sooner or later, there was bound to be a blowup.  For Jack it took 20 years.  Perhaps if they were able to see each other a bit more, it would've taken less time for the blowup to happen. 

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They knew each other for such a long time. Jack knew about Ennis's fears and he knew they were not baseless. He also knew it was dangerous to pursue romance in Childress. Why did he do it?

Well, that's assuming Jack was murdered.  If you don't think Jack was murdered, then this question doesn't make sense.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2007, 12:28:47 am by delalluvia »

Offline Penthesilea

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Quote
He also knew it was dangerous to pursue romance in Childress.

Well, that's assuming Jack was murdered.  If you don't think Jack was murdered, then this question doesn't make sense.


I think I have to respectully disagree. If you think Jack was not murdered, it still doesn't make Childress a safe haven for gay men. Seeking sex or romance in his own neighbourhood was still potentially dangerous.

Offline delalluvia

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Well, that's assuming Jack was murdered.  If you don't think Jack was murdered, then this question doesn't make sense.

I think I have to respectully disagree. If you think Jack was not murdered, it still doesn't make Childress a safe haven for gay men. Seeking sex or romance in his own neighbourhood was still potentially dangerous.

It doesn't make sense to single out Childress or Jack for that matter.  We have no idea - per the movie - what Childress is like.  Even if you believe Jack was murdered, did Lureen actually say where Jack was murdered?  I think she said it was on a 'backroad' somewhere.  That doesn't necessarily mean Childress or the environs around.  Considering how much Jack traveled, it could have easily been in Oklahoma or New Mexico or Colorado.  Also, Earl was murdered in Wyoming.  You could easily change the sentence or include Ennis in it - "Ennis knew it was dangerous to pursue romance in Wyoming/Riverton, why did he do it?"

And the answer?  Well, because people do.  Doesn't matter where they are.  Even Ennis took that chance - heck, he even went to a motel with a man in his own hometown knowing the danger.

See what I mean?  [shrug]

Offline Ellemeno

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I'm picturing Jack in the "It could be like this..." scene, saying "TWENTY fuckin years?"  I think he's we're lucky he didn't know how long it was going to drag on, he might not have pursued it.

Also, why didn't he learn to be happy with it?  Part of the answer:

A Twist of Bitch (:50)
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unj5uFrdj-4[/youtube]

pnwDUDE

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Quote
They knew each other for such a long time. Jack knew about Ennis's fears and he knew they were not baseless.

They did not 'know' each other for a long time. Out of the couple of months they were herdin', it was a matter of weeks that they were partnered up on Brokeback. After that, it was perhaps two weeks a year. Outta 19 years that is 38 weeks. Them being men, of that 38 weeks, I doubt any of it was discussing fears, feelings, etc. Time together. Riding, making camp, and making love the way two men like them do.
Ennis, based on his experience with his dad seeing Rich and what them guys did to him, provided an explanation why he and Jack couldn't be together, but that was about it. Don't reckon' Jack could relate to much of that, having not seen it.

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He also knew it was dangerous to pursue romance in Childress. Why did he do it?

IMO, Randall was lookin' to get off and not romantically. Jack, at 19, fell in love with Ennis then they took the plunge--something which is rare (even today) among homo men. He wanted desperatley to get that which he pretty much resigned himself (on that bench outside the dance) he wasn't gonna ever have with Ennis.
A young guy can find sex and get off with another guy in Childress, or Riverton, for that matter. The danger for Jack wasn't the pursuit of romance. It was thinking the easy (yet very complex) connection he had with Ennis was to be had anywhere other than on Brokeback Mountain.

Gut-punched love doesn't strike a whole lot of us. When it does, odds are it's hetro yungins'. Easy for them to marry up and proceed with life--kids and stuff. When this occurs between two men, the layers are/were insurmountable in J & E's time, and even today. It's not so much the crowbar that's worrysome. Statistics prove this. It's what is in our heads. Fearing getting beat up or killed, like what Ennis truly believed, is what mattered and it doesn't matter what really happened to Jack hence the vaugness at the hands of Proulx and Ang. 

I don't think Jack would have it any easier today (we know what he likes, fell in love with) seeking that romance which he experienced on that mountain, in Childress, San Fransisco or New York City, for that matter. Guys like him and Ennis, who don't want nothing to do with what is considered 'gay' today, find it easier to just get married, have kids, and perhaps prowl airport restrooms or worse to fullfill the physical aspect of that which they can't have. The longing and desire is there for that 'true' love, and while the bashings and killings are relegated to history or hype, little has changed for these type of guys.

Certainly can't wonder why Jack couldn't be happy with what he had much less then we can wonder why our neighor can't be happy with what he has.....................

Brad

Offline ifyoucantfixit

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       I don't think it was in Jack's nature, to be satisfied with the status quo.  He needed to be
disatisfied in order to get out of Lightning Flat.  He needed to be dissatisfied in order to leave
Signal and head to Texas.  He needed dissatisfaction with the situation he found himself in.  Working the rodeo circuit.  In order to find and Marry Lureen.
       He needed once again to be dissatisfied, with his marriage to Lureen, and missing Ennis,
in order to make him send the card to Ennis.  He was always the one from the very beginning,
wanting more.



     Beautiful mind

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Tell you what, I think one of the differences between the film and the story is that I think in the story Jack had more or less learned to be content--if not happy--with the arrangement as it was. At any rate, this is my impression--that he has learned to live with, or accommodated himself better to, the situation.

I don't think the story gives us as much of Jack's life in Texas as the film does. The story doesn't really give us Jack's reaction after Ennis's divorce--only that he drove to Wyoming "for nothing." We don't see him encounter the "ranch neighbor." The story gives me the impression that he continues to go back to Wyoming for 20 years for the emotional fulfillment he finds with Ennis, and meanwhile he takes care of his physical needs back home in Texas as he's able to, with trips to Mexico. He has developed a way to accommodate himself to the reality of their situation. It's only after Ennis holds out on him for a week that he wasn't going to be able to get together in November, plus threatens Jack for taking care of those same physical needs, that Jack loses his temper and points out that once he had a better idea.

The story tells us that after the confrontation, they torqued things back almost to where they had been. That also suggests to me that if Jack had not died shortly thereafter, he would have continued to make those trips to Wyoming indefinitely.

Just my two cents. ...
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

moremojo

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The story tells us that after the confrontation, they torqued things back almost to where they had been. That also suggests to me that if Jack had not died shortly thereafter, he would have continued to make those trips to Wyoming indefinitely.
Quite possibly, but we learn from Jack's father that Jack began talking of bringing the ranch foreman back to Lightning Flat, as he had formerly spoken of bringing Ennis back there. Of course, we know nothing ever came of that, but the fact that Jack talked of both these scenarios suggests a continued desire to cohabitate with a male lover.