Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Question actually about the movie
bbm_stitchbuffyfan:
Alright, I still immensely enjoy discussing the movie itself and the book (as long as I'm not talking to dumb ass trolls). I've had a particular question since I first saw the movie but I never thought to ask...
What is the purpose of the Fourth of July scene?
I first thought it was to show Ennis' violent side but I was wondering what everyone else got out of this scene. By the way, even though I am not sure of it's purpose, I love this scene. The motorcyclists scream 'trash' (that in itself makes me giggle) and it's absolutely thrilling to see Ennis kick some ass. Nobody messes with Ennis Del Mar. ;D
And plus, visually beautiful -- once again.
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: bbm_stitchbuffyfan on May 20, 2006, 10:02:42 am ---Alright, I still immensely enjoy discussing the movie itself and the book (as long as I'm not talking to dumb ass trolls). I've had a particular question since I first saw the movie but I never thought to ask...
What is the purpose of the Fourth of July scene?
I first thought it was to show Ennis' violent side but I was wondering what everyone else got out of this scene. By the way, even though I am not sure of it's purpose, I love this scene. The motorcyclists scream 'trash' (that in itself makes me giggle) and it's absolutely thrilling to see Ennis kick some ass. Nobody messes with Ennis Del Mar. ;D
And plus, visually beautiful -- once again.
--- End quote ---
I've seen and participated in a discussion of this scene on another thread, but unfortunately I can't remember where it was. I'm still not really sure of the purpose of this scene, either. It does act as an example of Ennis responding to a stressful situation with violence. It also shows Alma looking terrified of him, while she stands in the background holding the girls. I've had the unhappy suspicion that it didn't really exist for any other reason than the advertising shot of Ennis against the backdrop of the fireworks, but I'd now at least say this is really a very subversive scene. Here's Ennis, in this scene to all intents and purposes the all-American cowboy hero, defending his family on the Fourth of July, fireworks and all--and this man is actually gay.
serious crayons:
This scene doesn't seem as cohesive as some. But here are some possible meanings I can think of or have heard from others. Not all are necessarily valid and some are outright questionable, but some of them make sense:
-- Illustrates Ennis' violent streak and short fuse.
-- Establishes why Alma would be afraid enough of Ennis to avoid confronting him about Jack. Wrongly, I think (why would a wife fear her husband would turn anti-biker violence toward her?), but still.
-- Provides iconic Americana trailer image.
-- Shows gay men can beat up straight bikers.
-- Demonstrates difference in the way Ennis fights with Jack (when leaving Brokeback), whom he loves, and the more damaging way e fights with guys he hates.
-- Shorthands the story's reference to the many barfights that Ennis engaged in over the years. True, this isn't set in a bar. But it's more colorful this way.
-- Shows that Ennis gets nervous when he hears other men discussing pussy and humping.
-- Sets up a "maculinity" bookend/echo: on one holiday, Ennis successfully beats up bikers while Jack strikes out with Jimbo. But later in the movie on another holiday, Jack successfully tells off L.D. Newsome while Ennis gets beat up. Jack has progressed and matured -- and settles things with words -- while Ennis hasn't and doesn't.
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on May 20, 2006, 08:42:44 pm ----- Establishes why Alma would be afraid enough of Ennis to avoid confronting him about Jack. Wrongly, I think (why would a wife fear her husband would turn anti-biker violence toward her?), but still.
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure about the "not confronting him about Jack" part, but I think the other point isn't turning "anti-biker violence toward her," but rather that maybe Alma has never seen Ennis being violent before, and now she knows her husband is capable of violence.
--- Quote ----- Provides iconic Americana trailer image.
--- End quote ---
This is the one I was trying to get at.
--- Quote ----- Sets up a "masculinity" bookend/echo: on one holiday, Ennis successfully beats up bikers while Jack strikes out with Jimbo. But later in the movie on another holiday, Jack successfully tells off L.D. Newsome while Ennis gets beat up. Jack has progressed and matured -- and settles things with words -- while Ennis hasn't and doesn't.
--- End quote ---
Now, there's an interesting thought! Except I'm totally missing the part about Jack progressing and settling things with words. When did we see him being violent like Ennis? Their rough-housing on the mountain was their version of foreplay, Ennis's bloody nose was an accident, and Ennis slugged Jack in response. And personally I'd hardly call the language he uses to L.D. Newsome "progress." ;)
bbm_stitchbuffyfan:
Thanks for the responses!
I think the scene illustrates Ennis' violent tendencies and Alma's awareness and apprehension of such.
--- Quote ---I could go on and on about the McMurtry-Ossana/Lee interpretation of the original story; but, all three of them used their own artistic license to change a lot of the original story.
--- End quote ---
The majority of details that they changed were very minuscule though. And off course they had to add scenes to flesh the story out considering the film is derived from a short story.
--- Quote ---And personally I'd hardly call the language he uses to L.D. Newsome "progress."
--- End quote ---
That's very moral of you but considering that L.D. is such a freakin' prick, I thought of it as "progress." ;)
I agree, though, that Jack didn't really progress, as he had used words with Jimbo. (I didn't know that scene took place on Fourth of July.) I do see Jack as a dynamic character though. The only way I can figure those scenes being an example of that, however, is how we first see Jack rejected and embarrassed and later, sticking up for himself (I know the context of the scenes is different but still). I see it instead as another example of symmetry in this brilliant movie.
I forgot the book referenced Ennis getting into a number of fights over the years so maybe that was another reason why they inserted this scene in the script. There is no way this scene is there just for that image used in the trailer, as beautiful as it may be. I feel this way because the film appears to have been written very conscientiously as we only see the integral highlights (including both the ups and downs) of these guys' twenty-year relationship.
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