Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Question actually about the movie
serious crayons:
Keep in mind that I was listing every possible purpose I could think of or have heard of for the scene, with the caveat that not all of the ideas were equally legitimate. I think it's actually a combination of more than one of these (the most easily defensible is probably that Ennis got in barfights in the story).
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on May 20, 2006, 09:11:20 pm ---I'm not sure about the "not confronting him about Jack" part, but I think the other point isn't turning "anti-biker violence toward her," but rather that maybe Alma has never seen Ennis being violent before, and now she knows her husband is capable of violence.
--- End quote ---
Sure. But some people have pointed to this as explaining why she never confronts Ennis about Jack. My feeling is just because he beats up a couple of slop-bucket-mouthed bikers, ostensibly in defense of Alma, doesn't mean he would turn the same violence toward her, and few wives would draw that conclusion. But yeah, if you just want to say this scene shows Alma that Ennis can be violent with obnoxious strangers, that's indisputable.
--- Quote --- Now, there's an interesting thought! Except I'm totally missing the part about Jack progressing and settling things with words. When did we see him being violent like Ennis?
--- End quote ---
I meant Jack used words both times and Ennis used fists both times; Jack's approach initially failed but eventually worked, and Ennis' initially worked but eventually didn't. They're not perfect parallels, because the situations are all different. But in all four scenes, they are confronting some sort of challenge to their "masculinity," so I think the parallel is deliberate.
And SBF, you're right, I kind of sneaked that one in about July 4th, there's no evidence that the Jimbo scene takes place on that day. It adds to the parallel to notice that Ennis' experience is on a holiday, and then the later events also take place on a holiday (both American holidays, for what that's worth). The Jimbo scene is not explicitly on the 4th. That would be too neat and obvious. But the two scenes (4th and Jimbo) take place one after another, so presumably they happened close to each other in time.
--- Quote --- And personally I'd hardly call the language he uses to L.D. Newsome "progress." ;)
--- End quote ---
Why, Jeff! For some reason I never took you for a person with delicate sensibilities regarding coarse language! I will be sure to watch my own tongue around you in the future. ;)
Sheyne:
If you operate on the basis that every single scene in the movie is put to good use and is there to fulfill some purpose, then my $0.02 on this one would be showing any or all of the following:
- Ennis is always quick to defend and protect his little girls (even if they have to watch him being physically violent and using the F word);
- He is - and always will be - a man of few words; more physical than verbal.. with Jack in the motel after the "Brokeback got us good" comment, he doesn't speak, but pulls Jack's arm closer around him - and with the bikers, he responds to them by kicking in their teeth;
- Perhaps the look on Alma's face is why we see this scene. You can tell she's aghast. Despite being with him for as long as she has, she has never seen this side to her husband. Still waters run deep? They sure do...
Toast:
I agree with most of the things above, the scene shows different facets of Ennis and the 20 year history.
But here is how I see this from inside Ennis' head:
Here you are two useless riffraff guys, able to openly talk about your sexual desires, openly and rudely with no respect for your partners. But here am I aching and longing for my man who respects me and wants me too, but we cannot even admit to ourselves that we have these strong legitimate feelings. We cannot publicly admit our love, but you can crudely say the most sexual things that reflect no real commitment or respect.
I can hear him saying "You have your Independence Day, and you have this freedom and that freedom, but so can I have my freedoms too. This is my Independence Day, and I take all my rights and freedoms, too. And I take them with a side order of teeth, if you please."
But then he is reminded that his rights come at a cost to his wife and daughters too.
Freedom's just another word
for nothing left to lose.
K. Kristofferson
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Toast on May 21, 2006, 11:51:44 pm ---I agree with most of the things above, the scene shows different facets of Ennis and the 20 year history.
But here is how I see this from inside Ennis' head:
Here you are two useless riffraff guys, able to openly talk about your sexual desires, openly and rudely with no respect for your partners. But here am I aching and longing for my man who respects me and wants me too, but we cannot even admit to ourselves that we have these strong legitimate feelings. We cannot publicly admit our love, but you can crudely say the most sexual things that reflect no real commitment or respect.
I can hear him saying "You have your Independence Day, and you have this freedom and that freedom, but so can I have my freedoms too. This is my Independence Day, and I take all my rights and freedoms, too. And I take them with a side order of teeth, if you please."
But then he is reminded that his rights come at a cost to his wife and daughters too.
Freedom's just another word
for nothing left to lose.
K. Kristofferson
--- End quote ---
Toast, from now on that's how I will choose to think of this scene.
Your posts are beautiful! This one gave me chills and make me feel like crying simultaneously.
Penthesilea:
I think all of the mentioned reasons are valid. I want to add that the bikers were not only foul-mouthed in general, but direclty attacked Ennis (verbally) after his first, still non confrontational (according to screenplay, memory doesn't work exactly on this scene right now) attempt to get them qiueting down.
Biker:" Fuck you!" (mumbles to his friend) "Asshole probably stopped puttin' it to the wife after the kids come, you know how that is."
(from screenplay)
What cheek! Ennis's masculinity is called into question by this. Plus: the biker is at least halfway right with his assumption/allegation. Ennis's sex life with Alma is not the livliest and happiest. Hence the allegation hits Ennis twice as hard: first because it's rude and second because it's true and hits Ennis's weak point.
At this point of the story Ennis is heterosexually married, his relationship whith Jack on Brokeback is years ago and it's before the postcard/reunion. Externally he is an average heterosexual, manly guy. And this is also what he wants to believe about himself.
Another purpose of the 4th of July scene is therefore to show Ennis's inner struggle during the four years between Brokeback and the reunion. The contradictoriness between his external appearance/life and his internal feelings.
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