Our BetterMost Community > Chez Tremblay

Loneliness in Intervals

<< < (4/4)

Brown Eyes:

--- Quote from: Aussie Chris on May 24, 2006, 06:22:16 am ---Really Amanda?  Not about sex?  I always interpreted that this was about sex
--- End quote ---

Oh yes, I do think it's about sex... I qualified my little post by saying that in addition to sex... he's also talking about companionship.  Sure, the sex is the main aspect of his complaint, but on another, maybe secondary level there's the companionship idea.  It's interesting to hear a real, outright and frank discussion of sex coming out of either of them.

serious crayons:

--- Quote from: atz75 on May 24, 2006, 08:04:09 pm ---It's interesting to hear a real, outright and frank discussion of sex coming out of either of them.

--- End quote ---

It's almost shocking (in a good way) at this point, because of the lack of direct acknowledgement of it for so much of the movie.

OK, now I finally have to bring something up I have been tempted to discuss for a while, either here or on the John Twist thread or maybe even the double-meanings thread, because I think the issue has come up in some of those places, too. I've put it off for a while, but ... (deep breath) ...

Why do you guys think of Ennis as so devoid of self-esteem?

I mean, I know he's no George Clooney in terms of self-regard.  I'm not saying his self-esteem towers far above averge or anything. But I just don't think of that as his defining characteristic. Yes, he's shy and closed down and reserved and nonconfrontational and a loner and self-conscious in the "people suspect" sense. But when people say things like he fears he really would get electrocuted at the power plant or can't believe Jack or Cassie or anybody would love him -- well, that doesn't quite match how I see him. I don't think that automatically follows from the other characteristics I've listed. I figured his power-plant remark was insincere, because he's actually quite competent at mechanical things. And it doesn't fit my view of his relationships, which seem more a matter of him fully accepting (if not sufficiently honoring) Jack's love, and in the case of Cassie not being all that interested, period. Around other people he knows well -- Alma pre-divorce, his daughters, Jack, even Monroe -- he seems pretty comfortable and confident.

But maybe I'm just not seeing something in him that others see. Anybody care to elaborate?

JCinNYC2006:
I have to think about the self esteem question a bit more.  But the discussion about loneliness intrigues me.  I think that loneliness involves feeling cut off from someone else, as opposed to just being alone.  Ennis seems pretty clearly to be isolated from people, both emotionally and physically.  So when the relationship with Jack happens, then I think he has difficulty being intimate with Jack. 

They clearly have a bond and at times can be close and sustain that connectedness.  But Ennis has difficulty sustaining that closeness, like I think a lot of men.  Even when loneliness is overwhelming or feels unbearable, the feeling of being yourself with another person who sees who you are can be equally difficult to handle.  The intimacy they share that includes seeing each other as they are and loving each other for that can be a double edged sword when someone has self-image or self-esteem issues.

Not sure if this is coming out very clear, since it's almost 2.  But it's definitely one of those things I relate to that makes me so sad.

Juan

Aussie Chris:

--- Quote from: atz75 on May 24, 2006, 08:04:09 pm ---Oh yes, I do think it's about sex... I qualified my little post by saying that in addition to sex... he's also talking about companionship.  Sure, the sex is the main aspect of his complaint, but on another, maybe secondary level there's the companionship idea.  It's interesting to hear a real, outright and frank discussion of sex coming out of either of them.

--- End quote ---

Yes of course Amanda, I must have been off with the fairies last night.  For some reason I read you saying it wasn't about sex.  Sorry about that, I guess a part of me was looking for friendly disagreement.  :)  Anyway, I watched our boys again last night and it struck me just how much is said in the argument scene that has never been spoken of before.  It may have been a "Hello McFly" moment, but I think all the analysis we've been doing came together at that moment:  How much of it is about homophobia versus the fear of rejection?  How much is it sex versus the need for companionship? Without the argument scene, none of these questions would exist because they are only revealed and explored there.  Another thing occurred to me, it's a good thing they picked this time to bring everything out into the open, after all it's the last time that Ennis sees Jack alive.

Anyway, back to loneliness.  To me Ennis never really looks lonely until the bus-station/Cassie scene.  I'm making a distinction here between "alone" and "lonely" for he is certainly alone before then.  But right there you almost want to put him out of his misery, he looks just so sad.

I've just noticed that you've posted again about whether Ennis really had low self-esteme.  I'll quickly reply here and come back if I get better ideas.  Basically, what you say about being "shy and closed down and reserved and nonconfrontational and a loner and self-conscious" all adds up to a person that is likely to have low self-esteme in my book.  But going further, I think self-esteme is intrisically linked to a feeling of worthiness.  Beyond all the issues of homophobia and conpanionship, Ennis has resigned himself to his fate because he doesn't believe that being with Jack is possible (for him), and he feels there is nothing that he can do about it so he is disempowered also.  He doesn't think he deserves Jack because it is not a relationship he is supposed to have.  None of these things on their own necessarily add up to low self-esteme, and maybe it's not even when looked at holistically.  Maybe we have assumed this on the basis of: if it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it's probably a duck?

Brown Eyes:
The self-esteem issue is a good one.  I'm at work and can't post much now... but I agree with Chris in that many things in the film, at least to me, add up to Ennis seeming like a person with low self-esteem.  I guess his sad little outburst "I'm nothing, I'm nowhere..." seems to be the most direct verbal thing to indicate this to me too.  I would think that if he really is tortured by a good deal of internalized homophobia that he would almost necessarily have self-esteem dilemmas.  I think battling his father's homophobia and his own sexuality/ emerging identity as gay would lead to lots of self-esteem issues (whether it's "low" self-esteem, I don't know in exact clinical terms... but it's certainly painful at least).

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[*] Previous page