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Barack Obama vs. John McCain
LauraGigs:
I understand what you're getting at here, Shasta, with birth control as a preventative option against pregnancy and the necessity of abortion. (If I had the choice, there would be no abortions, and no unwanted kids, either. And contraception – when it's available, affordable and perfectly effective – is part of the solution).
I think the way this ties into the political debate is that with neo-conservatives' influence (not the traditional small-govt conservatives), comes a retreat toward puritanical values, and trends in education and law that reflect that. Thus: less birth control availability, less education, less information. And less incentive for the biomedical community to invest in research to develop better, healthier, more effective methods.
It's no coincidence that in places (such as Eastern Europe where women's rights are less advanced) where there are few-to-no affordable birth control options available on the general market, abortion is the number-one form of birth control.
:(
HerrKaiser:
--- Quote from: LauraGigs on May 24, 2008, 11:52:58 am ---Kaiser, what I meant by 'antiquated' was the idea that choice for women should be rolled back. And yes, there are many restrictions on abortion depending on where you live (3rd- or 2nd-trimester bans, parental consent requirements, 'cooling-off' periods, etc.)
I don't think I have to tell you that if it were men and boys getting pregnant, the law wouldn't be talking down to them the way it historically has to women. (A comedian once said that if men needed abortions, there would be clinics all over with scantily-dressed nurses cooing, "local or general?") On the serious side, though, whether or not to have an abortion is an extremely weighty, serious decision and I don't know that I could ever do that. What I question is who has a right to legislate on the issue and make that decision for everyone.
Any classical small-government conservative (who also questions the right to legislate against gun ownership) should be able to relate to that.
--- End quote ---
I think you have many misconceptions.
First of all, roe v wade is federal; it applies everywhere. It's ONLY restrictions for any woman seeking an abortion in 2nd or 3rd trimesters and up to, literally, the moment before labor, are physician assessments of serious health dangers to the woman if the procedure is done. These are not truly "restrictions" on choice; they are the same types of medical determinations made for nearly any surgeries. The baby is never at issue or considered, under law. As long as the baby is in the uterus, it can be killed. This allows a woman--not a husband, father, boyfriend, legal entity or anyone else--to destroy a baby that could have been born an hour later as a healthy human being. Regarding the parental concent, the GIRLS involved are not women. If they were 18, they'd be adults and not at issue. To suggest 'women's' rights are in jeopardy because of parental consent issues relative to girls is quite misleading.
secondly, the old "if men got pregnant..." line is quite unrealistic. Fact is that 31% of all single parent households are headed by men who, unlike their female counterparts, are rarely provided "support" in various ways to manage parenting, working, and household. Over half of divorces involve the husband/father seeking custody of his children, which almost never happens..just because of gender bias. The fact men struggle to obtain custody in an uphill, losing battle is testimony to their dedicated effort to be responsible fathers. If men got pregnant, we might have better families. The rights that have been "rolled back" are those of the male half of the population.
thirdly, the label of 'small government conservative' should not suggest to a thinking person that laws and rules ought not exist. The large government liberal should relate to the fact that large societies and groups of people often do not make the right choices for themselves and need right thinking governments to guide their behavior.
HerrKaiser:
--- Quote from: Marge_Innavera on May 24, 2008, 01:33:13 pm ---There ya go, Herr K. -- that's just what we women need; a man to tell us about our "unlimited choices", and don't let anyone tell ya you didn't get into specifics.
Why, it's a miracle that single straight women and lesbians even know how to wipe their own butts.
--- End quote ---
You might be better served to indicate what choices you think you don't have, then we can help you to understand.
HerrKaiser:
--- Quote from: jstephens9 on May 24, 2008, 12:06:13 pm ---I am a Democrat and I am a liberal. I always have been since I was a child.
--- End quote ---
OK. I can't help it so I apologize in advance for sarcasm and rudeness...
TIME TO MATURE AND GROW UP!!! ;)
Shasta542:
--- Quote from: Marge_Innavera on May 24, 2008, 01:51:48 pm ---"Many" implies more than two. What are the additions to (1) having the baby and keeping it or (2) having it adopted? And if you check Door Number 2, you'd better hope the baby doesn't have any special needs and isn't a minority race.
Oh, wait! I just thought of a third popular one: leave the baby in a public restroom or dumpster. Of course, the infant usually dies but hey, at least the woman didn't have an abortion.
I'm still waiting for that list of the vast number of birth control choices. Can't you name at least the first 20?
--- End quote ---
I can list some, but why? If you really want to know about Implanon, NuvaRing, sponges, Depo-Provera, barrier methods, etc. -- just google "birth control options".
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