BetterMost Community Blogs > The Twist Family Bible Study
My sexual orientation and my positions on gay rights
letxa2000:
--- Quote from: Elle on September 22, 2008, 11:52:45 pm ---Now whose argument isn't sound? You are saying that equal rights for ALL citizens is the same as not voting for ONE candidate?
--- End quote ---
You lost me. I'm simply confused as to how you conclude that I'm prejudiced.
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: letxa2000 on September 22, 2008, 11:24:30 pm --- Again, it's the height of arrogance to think that you'll automatically get what you want just because you want it really bad.
--- End quote ---
Well, the groups that want to keep the word and concept of marriage all to themselves seem to be practicing just this idea. They want to keep marriage between a man and a woman "just because they want it [to stay that way] really bad." I still don't see why this should be the case.
It's not arrogance to hope and work towards the goal of being recognized as equal within society. Which, at its core is what the gay marriage issue is about. It's about the idea that gay and lesbian couples are just as important to society and within society as straight couples.
pnwDUDE:
--- Quote from: letxa2000 on September 22, 2008, 06:29:27 pm ---My positions are:
Marriage is the union between a man and a woman. This is the traditional and historical understanding of what marriage represents, both religiously and in a civic sense. There should be no pressure or expectation to change this time-honored institution, and no explanation beyond that should be necessary.
Civil unions are acceptable only at the federal level. I do not believe individual states should pass laws that institute the concept of civil unions, but I think it would be reasonable for the federal government to do so with a constitutional amendment--as long as that amendment also specifically states that marriage is only to be between a man and a woman.
--- End quote ---
Thanks to the Clinton administration, a bill was passed in congress (85-14, with a majority of the democrates voting for) defining marriage as between a man and a women. A majority of the people through their representatives have spoken. Done.
Do I believe in gay rights? I believe everyone should have the same rights. It's called equality. In most states, when an obviously gay man is walking down the street, is approached by a thug who smacks him in the face while calling him a "fag", that crime is deemed 'bias motivated' and is charged as a felony or has more serious consequences than a random assault on a person for no reason. If my grandpa is walking down the street, the same thug approaches and smacks him in the face, calls him an old geezer, it's simple assault. In this example, the penalty is stiffer (in prison sentence, etc) if the victim is gay than if he is my 90 year old grandfather. That, my friends, is not gay rights. That is special rights for the gay man, and I, as a gay man, don't think that is fair or a guarantee of equal rights.
In this country, marriage means something different than it does in most other countries. It is a tradition, and like I stated, has been sanctioned by the federal government in 1996, spearheaded by Pres. Clinton (same administration who gave us 'don't ask, don't tell'). I have been in a domestic partnership with the same man for 20 years. He is entitled to my pension if I die before he does. The city passed this legislation which entitles same-sex domestic partners this benefit. He is covered by my insurance as a same-sex partner. At this point, the only thing we don't have is the federal tax exemption based on married verses single. For me, that isn't a big deal. I don't care about saying "I'm married". Someone asks, I tell them I'm not married but I have a domestic partner.
Same-sex couples who seek recognition under the veil of 'marriage' is a very small minority. At this point, a very large majority (especially in Congress) wanna keep 'marriage' as between a man and woman. This country is based on majority. Having said this, I believe we don't have equal rights, and while some local jurisdictions (or states) see to it that we are treated as close to equal as our male/female counterparts, there does need to be bill passed in the senate that allows us the same protection/rights as hetro's. I don't demand marriage. For me it's not about recognition. It's about rights. There is a defining line between the demand to be legitimized and the demand for equal treatment.
Brad
letxa2000:
Now we're on to something...
--- Quote ---It's not arrogance to hope and work towards the goal of being recognized as equal within society.
--- End quote ---
Then forget it. Achieving "gay marriage" won't mean you are recognized as equal. There will still be homophobes (or whatever they're called) that will look down on you. And added to that you'll even probably generate more resentment from people that would have been willing to accept civil unions but take offense at gay marriage.
Get over the inferiority complex you apparently have. If your concern is really about rights, take the civil unions and have your rights. But if this is about you feeling like society recognizes you as just as important or whatever, you're not going to achieve that by bitching and moaning all the way to the Supreme Court trying to change the definition of marriage which might make you feel good but will make others feel pretty ticked off. That's really not going to increase your stature in society.
Ellemeno:
--- Quote from: letxa2000 on September 23, 2008, 12:04:48 am ---You lost me. I'm simply confused as to how you conclude that I'm prejudiced.
--- End quote ---
You said:
--- Quote ---How do you figure that I have prejudices? Believe it or not, the fact that I don't agree with gay marriage doesn't mean I have prejudices against gays. That is similar to calling me racist just because I won't vote for Obama, and I won't have it.
--- End quote ---
I wouldn't call anyone a racist based on knowing they wouldn't vote for one particular candidate, Obama. I wouldn't call somebody prejudiced based on knowing they didn't want one particular gay couple to get married. I WOULD see prejudice if I then found out it wasn't just that one gay couple, but ALL gay couples they didn't want to allow to get married.
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